The Ukraine Situation

[Col Nago]

You alright Craig? Is the 5G getting to you? Off you pop down to Tesco and stock up on tin foil, there’s a good lad.

[Rob666]

If the Kremlin or anyone else have evidence of these alleged crimes on either side they have the right to the international courts.
The Soviet have the blood of 11 million Kulak’s on those hands.
What’s happening now is despicable and completely out of all proportion. Unless it’s all made up TV for the masses.
Of course it isn’t!

If the west had evidence of various countries/dictators crimes over the years why didn't we use the international courts and instead just launch invasions?

I'm not saying there is not an invasion happening, but the media are fully capable of making up TV for the masses!

There have been numerous examples over the years where crisis actors are used to paint a picture that will keep us in a state of fear. Some have already emerged of a bandaged up 'Ukrainian resident' who looks spookily like a lady who survived a gas explosion a few years ago.

What are you seeing on the TV that is substantiated evidence?

I don't watch it because it is applied behavioural psychology at work, but clips I have seen are always reporters in helmets half ducking down with explosion like sounds in the background talking about 'unconfirmed reports' of this and that. Sometimes with a random person in the background acting completely normal!

People in Ukraine, Russian/Ukrainian/Other dying is despicable I agree, but it is not black and white who are the good guys here and we in the West have a lot to answer for with it getting to this.

Like I already said, pre 2014 there was a democratically elected leader in Ukraine. We have never applied any pressure on Zelensky to stop shelling his own citizens and to ratify the Minsk accords. Is moving more and more weaponry in going to do anything other than increase the death on both sides and prolong the suffering?

Seriously?

The facts are Russia has invaded Ukraine of which there is no doubt, they are the bad guys 100%. The Ukrainian people are suffering due to this darn madman and all started from his annex of Crimea, anything trying to bring a conversation about Zelensky if this is true or not does not justify Russia’s actions. So next your be saying that Poland has not had 115k people arrive or the poor women and children trying to scramble onto the trains etc can’t be trusted made for the TV masses. Sounds like you have info we don’t care to share what’s fact or fiction.

[ST1976]

The APC/car incident was, to my eye, caused by the APC cornering at too high a speed for track adhesion, loosing control and sliding across the road, rolling over the car. I've driven British tracked APC/scout vehicles, for reference.

The "misslie" that struck the tower block looked, to my eye, to be a MLRS large calibre rocket that was on a downward trajectory having burnt up most of its propellant, going by the smoke trail it left.

[C24]

Smart move for this thread from the Mess to Gen. Chat.

I look fwd to reading the posts of ‘007 ‘ shown above and the related responses.

Stay safe . +

[Craig]

You alright Craig? Is the 5G getting to you? Off you pop down to Tesco and stock up on tin foil, there’s a good lad.

Why don't you play the ball and not the man?

I won't look to derail this thread but there is a book written by Arthur Firstenberg pre 5g called 'The Invisible Rainbow'. It is a stunningly well researched and referenced book that looks at the effects of electricity, both naturally occurring and created EMF's, on the human body.

Just my opinion, but it should be required reading before anyone looks to criticise others who may have concerns about untested technology like 5g.

[Craig]

If the west had evidence of various countries/dictators crimes over the years why didn't we use the international courts and instead just launch invasions?

I'm not saying there is not an invasion happening, but the media are fully capable of making up TV for the masses!

There have been numerous examples over the years where crisis actors are used to paint a picture that will keep us in a state of fear. Some have already emerged of a bandaged up 'Ukrainian resident' who looks spookily like a lady who survived a gas explosion a few years ago.

What are you seeing on the TV that is substantiated evidence?

I don't watch it because it is applied behavioural psychology at work, but clips I have seen are always reporters in helmets half ducking down with explosion like sounds in the background talking about 'unconfirmed reports' of this and that. Sometimes with a random person in the background acting completely normal!

People in Ukraine, Russian/Ukrainian/Other dying is despicable I agree, but it is not black and white who are the good guys here and we in the West have a lot to answer for with it getting to this.

Like I already said, pre 2014 there was a democratically elected leader in Ukraine. We have never applied any pressure on Zelensky to stop shelling his own citizens and to ratify the Minsk accords. Is moving more and more weaponry in going to do anything other than increase the death on both sides and prolong the suffering?

Seriously?

The facts are Russia has invaded Ukraine of which there is no doubt, they are the bad guys 100%. The Ukrainian people are suffering due to this darn madman and all started from his annex of Crimea, anything trying to bring a conversation about Zelensky if this is true or not does not justify Russia’s actions. So next your be saying that Poland has not had 115k people arrive or the poor women and children trying to scramble onto the trains etc can’t be trusted made for the TV masses. Sounds like you have info we don’t care to share what’s fact or fiction.

Look I am not defending Russia or Putin, I don't know for sure because he is the hardest player to read, but I would suggest he is as much of a globalist stooge as the western political leaders.

This is all pantomime, the battle lines are not NATO vs Russia, but a consortium of global public private partnerships (between banks, governments and mega corporations) vs the people of the world.

We as individuals are on the same side as the Ukrainian people, but also the Russian people. I agree with you the war is wrong but you simply can't say 100% the Russians are the bad guys.

For example as early as 2014 over 30 of these volunteer battalions cropped up in Ukraine and went to war on behalf of the western coup backed leader against Ukrainian people in the Donbass. Their army is not formed and centrally controlled like ours. As I understand it these volunteer battalions were essentially the private mafia regiments of rich, likely criminal, oligarchs. They are not 100% good guys, there are shades of grey in everything - including this invasion/conflict.

Amnesty International has documented calls that went unanswered to the government in Kiev about human rights abuses by these battalions operating in Eastern Ukraine. Why was this not on the media 24/7? Why do the media, if they are truly free and independent only ever push one side of agenda so hard and relentlessly? Why can't they give us balanced reporting so we can make our own minds up? I mean if someone was trying to sell you an old banger secondhand car and was trying too hard your gut instinct would warn you to walk away and that they may not be trustworthy. But with bad news it seems we become addicted to it and use it as an echo chamber to back up our feelings, created by the one sided coverage.

You also can't say this all started with the annexation of Crimea in 2014. Yes Ukraine wanted to be an independent nation following the dissolution of the Soviet Union, but it also wanted close relations with Russia. We never look at history, this applies to Africa and the Middle East especially, there seems to be this assumption that border lines on a map are clear cut counties, but language, religion, military, trading and family/tribal ties often predate the borders.

There has been an exodus of people from Ukraine for years now, along with other countries like Syria and the middle east. There is an agenda, clearly visible in the United States under the democrats of Biden with it's open Southern border and the EU for a high transformation of our societies via mass immigration. The invasion by Russia is the problem which creates the reaction of us wanting to save the refugees that brings about the solution (already planned) of more migration into countries like Britain. I'm not saying I have anything against other national people by the way, but look up George Soros and the open society foundation to see evidence of this mass movement of people being deliberate. The question is why? And if you didn't want the suffering of the Ukrainian people, or the changing demographic at home then don't overthrow a democratically elected leader in 2014 for a start.

I don't know anything more than anyone else, but what I won't do is demand a reaction. If I had to suggest, the thee real play here is to divert attention from other things and bring about changes in the future.

Your attention is such a powerful thing, and when the media and politicians are saying "look over here, look over here, no not there - over here" it is a distraction. Strange how the 24 hour covid coverage abruptly stopped? Wars have been used for centuries to create a bogeyman abroad, to unite the people against a common enemy. The real thing we should be outraged about and up in arms about are the developments in Canada, where 65,000 truckers have peacefully protested with the support of millions of Canadians from all walks of life against the far reaching mandates by Trudeau which are a clear breach of inalienable rights. These peace loving Canadians have had their bank accounts frozen and their ability to feed their families removed by a fascist dictator. Where is the media coverage? Where is the western condemnation of Trudeau? The media are lying by omission, it is not neccessarily the things they do report that are the lies, but the things they don't report...

Changes in the future could easily include the increase in energy prices to British homes further squeezing us and a great scapegoat to blame supply issues and any future problems or a recession on.

It also cements in peoples subconscious the idea that Russians are bad. So in years to come if your bank account gets hacked or the internet goes down they have someone to blame lined up. The Russians of course are in on this and you can research that by looking at something called 'Cyber Polygon' hosted by the World Economic Forum.

Right, I'm going out for the day - please don't take me the wrong way I'm not looking to argue we are all people who enjoy aviation in one way shape or form, I'm just trying to add some balance to the discussion.

[NAM Updater]

Craig, you post articulate observations on a fast changing and challenging situation; yet you say that you do not watch any news outlets.

What are you seeing on the TV that is substantiated evidence?

I don't watch it because it is applied behavioural psychology at work, but clips I have seen are always reporters in helmets half ducking down with explosion like sounds in the background talking about 'unconfirmed reports' of this and that. Sometimes with a random person in the background acting completely normal!

Could I respectfully ask that you cite some of the sources for your comments and observations?

[EF-111]

I watched Ukraine On Fire by Oliver Stone last night https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKcmNGvaDUs It gives a very interesting insight into the events of 2013/14 which has led to the situation we are in today...

Regards, Steve

[Gary]

Current Ukrainian claims

Total losses of the enemy for the three previous days (24,25 and 26 February) of the zagarbnicʹkoí ць war of the Russian Federation in Ukraine:

Airplanes - 27
helicopters - 26
Tanks - 146
Combat armored vehicles - 706
Cannon - 49
ZRK BOOK - 1
RSZV BM-21 "City" - 4
Automotive equipment - 30
Tanks - 60
Operational and tactical level BPLA - 2
Ships / boats - 2

Personal warehouse - approximately 4300 (to be specified).

#stoprussia Together we will win! Punch the Occupier!

[slogen51]

From the BBC

Vladimir Putin hails his country's special forces for their work in Ukraine

Work!! He is a sick

Meanwhile in the EU

And Germany pledges a massive hike in defence spending, to meet the Nato 2% target

[pg1610]

Current Ukrainian claims

Total losses of the enemy for the three previous days (24,25 and 26 February) of the zagarbnicʹkoí ць war of the Russian Federation in Ukraine:

Airplanes - 27
helicopters - 26
Tanks - 146
Combat armored vehicles - 706
Cannon - 49
ZRK BOOK - 1
RSZV BM-21 "City" - 4
Automotive equipment - 30
Tanks - 60
Operational and tactical level BPLA - 2
Ships / boats - 2

Personal warehouse - approximately 4300 (to be specified).

#stoprussia Together we will win! Punch the Occupier!

Ukrainian Military really are giving the Russian bear a good hammering
I note Tanks listed twice (possible/assume that one of the numbers relates to Tankers rather than tanks)
ZRK Book ?
RSZV BM-21 is a MLRS(Multiple rocket launch system)
Operational and tactical level BPLA (I think drones ? thats as near as I could find in a quick search)

thanks for posting the update

[pg1610]

From the BBC

Vladimir Putin hails his country's special forces for their work in Ukraine

Work!! He is a sick

Meanwhile in the EU

And Germany pledges a massive hike in defence spending, to meet the Nato 2% target

Mike you have to remember he is not talking to us but to the Russian people to justify his actions and to show how strong he is (again not to us but to his own population)

also to add almost all European countries have now closed airspace to Russia , Belguim, Italy , Denmark Ireland and Finland(probably after tha last Finnair flight (over Russia) arrives about 16.30

I am surprised the USA has not followed suit or France as of yet

[pg1610]

some added bits from Twitter feeds

Italy deploying more typhoons

https://twitter.com/ItalyatNATO/status/ ... 1142155277

The F35 that tracked this morning

https://theaviationist.com/2022/02/27/f ... r-ukraine/

Ukraiane says it has been resupplied with A/A missiles (nice pic of UKAF Mig29 here)

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... s-day-four

[Red-Eye-Knight]

Sky News saying Putun has ordered his commanders to put nuclear weapons on alert after NATO statements today, Very worrying times.

[pg1610]

EU recently announced more sanctions incl
total EU ban on any Russian owned/operated aircraft
more financial sanctions

and a removal of the ban on shipping weapons to a none member state , described by the EU foreign affairs chief as a "TABOO HAS GONE"

[roughcutter]

Sky News saying Putun has ordered his commanders to put nuclear weapons on alert after NATO statements today, Very worrying times.

Act of a desperate man! If it wasn't so serious it would almost be laughable, almost like a 007 James Bond movie from the 1960's, where the super villain realises the game's up and resorts to his last throw of the dice!

[mustang5861]

I watched Ursula von der Leyen's press-conference and what was conspicuous by its absence was any indication of when these actions/decisions may/will come into effect. Have I missed something, or was this just a 'statement of intent'? The ABC 747 passing by the Shetland Islands this afternoon on its way to Atlanta - much the same route as the VDA Il-76 heading for Rekyavik on Friday evening on its way to Portsmouth (Pease) in New Hampshire - would suggest that any ban is still a work in progress. Presumably
the much-touted UK ban on Aeroflot is just that - a ban on Aeroflot alone - while Russian cargo operators can make their way through UK airspace uimpeded.

Apologies if I've got any of the facts wrong - happy to be put right on any of them.

[Malcolm]

Presumably
the much-touted UK ban on Aeroflot is just that - a ban on Aeroflot alone - while Russian cargo operators can make their way through UK airspace uimpeded.

This is the UK NOTAM :

B0487/22 (Issued for EGPX EGTT) - UKRAINE CRISIS: AIRSPACE RESTRICTION ISSUED BY THE DEPARTMENT FOR
TRANSPORT - NO AIRCRAFT WHICH IS OWNED, CHARTERED OR OPERATED BY A
PERSON CONNECTED WITH RUSSIA, OR WHICH IS REGISTERED IN RUSSIA SHALL
FLY IN UNITED KINGDOM AIRSPACE, INCLUDING IN THE AIRSPACE ABOVE THE
UNITED KINGDOM'S TERRITORIAL SEA. THIS REGULATION DOES NOT APPLY TO
ANY AIRCRAFT FLYING IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PERMISSION OF THE UK
SECRETARY OF STATE FOR TRANSPORT OR TO ACFT FLYING IN ACCORDANCE
WITH A CLEARANCE ISSUED BY THE AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL CENTRE AT
SWANWICK OR PRESTWICK. PERMISSION AVAILABLE FROM UK DEPARTMENT FOR
TRANSPORT: +44 0300 330 3000, MON - FRI 0830-1730, OR VIA
DUTYOFFICERS(AT)DFT.GOV.UK, OR IN WRITING TO: CONTACTDFT (AT)
DFT.GOV.UK. 2022-02-0372/AS6. 25 FEB 21:00 2022 UNTIL 23 MAY 11:59 2022. CREATED:
25 FEB 21:19 2022

However, AIUI a lot of Russian Civil aircraft are registered in Bermuda, so these, if operated by a non Russian crew on a non Russian task might still be allowed.

[Morseman]

I just hope we still have backchannel communications with his Military commanders to put a stop to this before it gets out of hand. The mans deranged.

[raptor9]

Trump says, of course, that this situation would not have occurred had he still been in charge. How predictable was that!!!??. Therefore, best solution would be to persuade Pres. Biden to sent the Orange Wonder to talk to his friend and stop this madness. When he fails, He could do the world a favour and stay there with his equally odious friend, sip vodka for the rest of their lives and tell each other how good they are!!.