Red Arrows XX227 retires after 38 years

[seven]

Google is there for a reason..

Off the top of my head, Alpha Jet and Iskra flew before the Hawk.

7

[kstater94]

Google is there for a reason..

Off the top of my head, Alpha Jet and Iskra flew before the Hawk.

7

True, however, I believe what got this going off on this tangent was the comment that the Snowbirds fly an older aircraft (to which you charmingly put us in our place with "wrong")

The Tutor first flight was January 13, 1960 and the Iskra was February 5, 1960.

The Tutor first flew in an official display team capacity in 1967 with the Golden Centennairs and then the Snowbirds (as we know them came into being in 1971)

The Polish have flown the Iskra as their aerobatic mount since 1969

From a national display team mount point of view, the Red Arrow's first season with the Hawk was 1980 and the Patrouille de France first season was 1981. So, although the Alpha Jet flew before the Hawk, the Patrouille de France didn't equip until after (and I would say that the aircraft were newer than the ones the Reds got.... most likely).

All that being said

I believe the statement of the Snowbirds flying an older aircraft is still accurate

[seven]

Contradiction much...

Yes the Snowbirds fly an older type, but the statement was 'Only the Snowbirds fly an older type'.

Soooooo...

7

[Seahornet1]

Google is there for a reason..

...And this forum is there for a reason too; for like-minded people to share information. I don't think it's intended for like-minded people to tell each other to use Google...

[seven]

How'd you think I found out the information;)

7

[Nighthawke]

...And this forum is there for a reason too; for like-minded people to share information.

True - but if some people cannot be bothered to help themselves, why should they expect others to do it for them? Yes, maybe sometimes the responses are a little terse, but occasionally they are deserved. Personally I will ask as a last resort having used my "noddle" to do a bit of research. I'm all for helping, and do so where an when I can. However there are a lot of questions asked (and not just here) that could be answered (probably quicker too) than posing them here for someone else to research.

[NAM Updater]

If not Gate Guard or G.I. use and if the RAF Museum(s) Don't want one then why not either Duxford, Newark (which is pretty near Lincoln - Scampton) or Yorkshire Elvington?

Possible issues of displaying a "Red Arrows" aircraft in an independent museum - copyright / image rights on the name & markings - NAM encountered a few 'issues' when investigating what colour scheme to repaint its Gnat into!

[stevep22]

Could the various legal issues, including copyright, not be at least partly solved by the aircraft going on loan to a museum/group, rather than a donation or purchase?

Steve

[NAM Updater]

That could be a possible answer, but even then I would suspect that it would need to go to a national collection first and then be placed out on loan; similar to how the Oxford and Harvard came to Newark in the early 1990s.

[Seahornet1]

...And this forum is there for a reason too; for like-minded people to share information.

True - but if some people cannot be bothered to help themselves, why should they expect others to do it for them? Yes, maybe sometimes the responses are a little terse, but occasionally they are deserved. Personally I will ask as a last resort having used my "noddle" to do a bit of research. I'm all for helping, and do so where an when I can. However there are a lot of questions asked (and not just here) that could be answered (probably quicker too) than posing them here for someone else to research.

No argument with your comments, but that isn't what happened here. If someone is told that their post is 'wrong', without any further context or explanation, I just think that's a bit unhelpful.

[stevep22]

If it could be trucked down there I think XX227 would be an excellent inclusion in the RAF100 static display at the Cosford show in June.

Steve

[ZappaFan]

By way of Red Arrows Hawk nostalgia, I was on a "BARG" visit to Kemble in November 1979 when the Arrows' hangar contained: XX251/252/253/257/259/260/262/264/266.

Cheers, ZF.

[teeonefixer]

It was good to see that the Reds marked this event.
XX227 has had a long and illustrious career and will join the other retired airframes at Shawbury, once it has donated its smoke kit. It will be interesting to see what happens to them (dispersal of the black fleet has started). The airframe was due for a Major servicing but had limited life remaining.

Regarding previous comments:
As far as I know, no RAFAT airframes have ever been given to other units, they have some unique mods for one, apart from being smoke-equipped. Of course, RAFAT borrow "Black" aircraft over the winter season while their own are in servicing.

As for "trying to sell a 1970's design", the airframe shape hasn't changed that much (why change what works) but the training system flying today and continually being developed, and the detailed changes required to support it, make it a totally different beast to those days !

[NickB]

XX264 was always my favourite... back in about 1980 at St Mawgan as a kid I collected autographs and one RA pilot I asked, my Dad said to ask him to write down his serial number (at the time I had no idea what he was referring to!) and it was XX264. Pilot was Tim Watts and I still have that autograph!

[Seahornet1]

XX264 was always my favourite... back in about 1980 at St Mawgan as a kid I collected autographs and one RA pilot I asked, my Dad said to ask him to write down his serial number (at the time I had no idea what he was referring to!) and it was XX264. Pilot was Tim Watts and I still have that autograph!

According to UK Serials, XX264 went into storage at Shawbury 06/2014.
Try making them an offer...?

[Vulcanone]

Digging up an old thread slightly.

No fate for it yet, but one of the other ex Reds jets (XX308) has found a new home

https://www.nms.ac.uk/national-museum-o ... g.facebook

[goody]

I believe XX227 is currently in the Scampton heritage centre and can be seen on a guided tour of the heritage centre at RAF Scampton

[teeonefixer]

XX227 is not at Scampton...nor at Shawbury now......watch this space !!!!

[csnewton2701]

I wonder what the odds are for it to come out of retirement to replace the Hawk that was sadly lost.

Chris

[Vulcanone]

Zero, as I suspect its used its FI up