Red Arrows to get new jets

[Mike]

I wonder? 15 serials allocated BAe Hawk T2 ZK045 to 059

I think those were for the original order/options which were never taken up.

No, these are new allocations.

The original order for the T2 was from ZK010 - ZK044 for 35 aircraft, this was reduced to 28 aircraft (ZK010 - ZK037).

[tommc]

I wonder? 15 serials allocated BAe Hawk T2 ZK045 to 059

I think those were for the original order/options which were never taken up.

No, these are new allocations.

The original order for the T2 was from ZK010 - ZK044 for 35 aircraft, this was reduced to 28 aircraft (ZK010 - ZK037).

No, those serials are NOT new allocations, as they were first allocated in 2007.

[Pen Pusher]

Slight amendment to previous BBC report.

Amendment: This story was changed on November 1 to reflect the defence secretary's comments that the Red Arrows fleet would be reviewed rather than imminently replaced.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-37833311

Brian

[teeonefixer]

Let's not forget that the Reds have had replacement airframes since 2011-ish (only XX227 left from the original fleet). These will keep them going for a good while yet with spare airframes also available. It will be very hard for the MoD to justify spending a lot of money on new aeroplanes.

[Agent K]

Isn't it about time BAe started looking at a Hawk replacement? Then it really would be a showcase for Britain. I don't suppose any EU countries will be keen on a joint venture now. As long at it isn't a turbo-prop.

They are, look at the proposals in the USAF trainer competition and the partners.

[teeonefixer]

Good point Agent K
Aero India next year will display the latest and significant Hawk developments.

[Amp]

I guess it will have to be an aircraft type that is permitted to conduct a full display in close proximity to built up areas - such as Farnborough....

[Bushpilot]

I guess it will have to be an aircraft type that is permitted to conduct a full display in close proximity to built up areas - such as Farnborough....

9 x Red F-35's? Well someone had to say it

[Sparts99]

Save on cash, paint BBMF Spitfires red like Spencer Flack's XIV years back.

[Zeb]

Use drones, save money, save lives.

[plmc135]

How many Gnats are there still knocking around in the UK, nothing like going retro!

[Seahornet1]

Can we change the thread title to reflect the actual (non) story, rather than the usual nonsense that the press have invented...?

What the Def Sec actually said was, "...Eventually we will have to replace the aircraft, and we will start to think about that in the next year or two..."

[Phoon]

I'm thinking with continued reductions in 'real' flight hours and increasing use of simulators I wonder if the present fleet of 28 Hawks T2s on 4 sdns strength is to loose around a dozen or so airframes to the reds?

[C24]

Try this

The Red Arrows are an integral part of the Airforce.
The Squadron is a target, no, a pinnacle for our fastjet pilots. A skills honing home for the best that have been produced by the system.

Some facts of the current situation.

The Tornado is reaching it's sell-by-date.
The Typhoon has been a Eurofighter since it's conception [& expensive].
A fastjet trainer is an ongoing requirement.
The F-15 was updated to become the two-seat 'E' model.
Typhoons & Hawks have been flying missions of mutual support in attack roles.
BAE Systems provides skills [& work] for the UK.
It is not the aircraft that is the major part of a weapons system. [Terrorist wearing flipflops, riding a Honda90, using a Blowpipe, if you follow].
Pilots are expensive but re-training the maintainers is a bigger cost [My guess].

So, to the Reds 'new' aircraft.

" In my World "
I would schedule 18, yes, eighteen new 'Combat' Hawk aircraft to the production run of the Indian Airforce order.
Allocate four to #41 Sqdn [currently with Tornados & Typhoons] to investigate a Typhoon/ Combat Hawk role; two more to a flight operating out of RAF Valley, the rest to RAFAT in dribs of two/three.

Red One to fly the first for one season, perhaps with an Arrow on the fin.

This would offer lots of continuity for maintainers, cost minimisation & work for the UK.

RAFAT, aka " The Red Arrows " could eventually become know as the " The Red Indians ".

Just a thought.
Charlie

[Andy_99]

Try this

The Red Arrows are an integral part of the Airforce.
The Squadron is a target, no, a pinnacle for our fastjet pilots. A skills honing home for the best that have been produced by the system.

Some facts of the current situation.

The Tornado is reaching it's sell-by-date.
The Typhoon has been a Eurofighter since it's conception [& expensive].
A fastjet trainer is an ongoing requirement.
The F-15 was updated to become the two-seat 'E' model.
Typhoons & Hawks have been flying missions of mutual support in attack roles.
BAE Systems provides skills [& work] for the UK.
It is not the aircraft that is the major part of a weapons system. [Terrorist wearing flipflops, riding a Honda90, using a Blowpipe, if you follow].
Pilots are expensive but re-training the maintainers is a bigger cost [My guess].

So, to the Reds 'new' aircraft.

" In my World "
I would schedule 18, yes, eighteen new 'Combat' Hawk aircraft to the production run of the Indian Airforce order.
Allocate four to #41 Sqdn [currently with Tornados & Typhoons] to investigate a Typhoon/ Combat Hawk role; two more to a flight operating out of RAF Valley, the rest to RAFAT in dribs of two/three.

Red One to fly the first for one season, perhaps with an Arrow on the fin.

This would offer lots of continuity for maintainers, cost minimisation & work for the UK.

RAFAT, aka " The Red Arrows " could eventually become know as the " The Red Indians ".

Just a thought.
Charlie

Isn't Red Indian a non PC term, we'd have to call them the Royal Air Force Native Americans

On a more serious note equipping them with T2's is the obvious choice unless we are in the process of designing a replacement British jet trainer,
Typhoons would be great but........ an absolute money pit to run & maintain.

[Snoop 95]

Well, hope you'll bear with me whilst I venture into the world of fantasy with some of you, but surely it cannot be long before we have 'virtual' air displays! No-one would be in any danger then.

[Sky Pirate]

Yup the red's would have no problem getting 9 Typhoons serviceable all at the same time.......Dream on !!!!

Oh and 10 spares never mind 1

[Ghost from above]

2020 out of service date for T1. Only option is something already developed like T2. Development lead in time wouldnt get a new trainer designed built and tested in time. My monies on extending a production run and dual use of aircraft. Reliability is not a problem so you could move some fast jet training to Scampton to utilise spare airframe time.

[Plane Speaker]

Try this

The Red Arrows are an integral part of the Airforce.
The Squadron is a target, no, a pinnacle for our fastjet pilots. A skills honing home for the best that have been produced by the system.

Some facts of the current situation.

The Tornado is reaching it's sell-by-date.
The Typhoon has been a Eurofighter since it's conception [& expensive].
A fastjet trainer is an ongoing requirement.
The F-15 was updated to become the two-seat 'E' model.
Typhoons & Hawks have been flying missions of mutual support in attack roles.
BAE Systems provides skills [& work] for the UK.
It is not the aircraft that is the major part of a weapons system. [Terrorist wearing flipflops, riding a Honda90, using a Blowpipe, if you follow].
Pilots are expensive but re-training the maintainers is a bigger cost [My guess].

So, to the Reds 'new' aircraft.

" In my World "
I would schedule 18, yes, eighteen new 'Combat' Hawk aircraft to the production run of the Indian Airforce order.
Allocate four to #41 Sqdn [currently with Tornados & Typhoons] to investigate a Typhoon/ Combat Hawk role; two more to a flight operating out of RAF Valley, the rest to RAFAT in dribs of two/three.

Red One to fly the first for one season, perhaps with an Arrow on the fin.

This would offer lots of continuity for maintainers, cost minimisation & work for the UK.

RAFAT, aka " The Red Arrows " could eventually become know as the " The Red Indians ".

Just a thought.
Charlie

...and an all-red A400M Atlas support aircraft!

[turmo]

Yup the red's would have no problem getting 9 Typhoons serviceable all at the same time.......Dream on !!!!

Oh and 10 spares never mind 1

If you look at the example of the Blue Angels, their aircraft are remarkably reliable because they have most of the operational equipment removed. Basically the bare airframe with ballast, not much left to sulk other than the FBW and FADEC computers.

Using the Hawk T.Mk.2 in a dual training / display role might be an option but one would have to assess the impact of repeated high-G manoeuvres on the avionics and airframe. Presumably cycling the display airframes through the pool; was it the Taiwanese air force that used to have all its trainers in the display livery to make that easier?


I don't think there will be a British-built trainer after the Hawk, current trends indicate we'll just go in with NATO Training in Canada or buy whatever the USAF selects. BAE hasn't much interest in airframes any more and is just trying to milk the last few quid out of the Hawk.