Syrian/Iraq air war and conflict

[Sparts99]

I think these kind of incidents are inevitable, whether they are real, exaggerated or made up the public won't know. The first casualty and so on.

If Russia does impose a no fly zone I'm not sure the legal position for NATO will be clear, although there is a UN mandate to attack ISIS/ISIL/Daesh the Russians would have a field day if NATO intruded into a no fly zone to launch an attack.

[the concerned]

I thought that most of Nato coutries no longer recognise assad as the legitimate ruler of Syria

[the concerned]

does anyone know where is the nearest Iraqi airbase to the Syrian border and how far is it

[POL]

Tall Afar (ORTF) approx 33nm to border
Mosul (ORBM) approx 66nm
Qayyarah (ORQW) approx 80nm
Al Sahra (ORSH) around 115nm

There are likely to be other bases my data doesn't show.

[the concerned]

I think it would be good if the western allies could set up some kind of helicopter gunship/spec ops base where they could engage isil along the border of both countries the only main ground troops would be a protection force to guard the base

[Comet102]

Tall Afar (ORTF) approx 33nm to border - under ISIL control since June 2014.
Mosul (ORBM) approx 66nm - under ISIL control since June 2014.
Qayyarah (ORQW) approx 80nm - under ISIL control since June 2014.
Al Sahra (ORSH) around 115nm - under Iraqi Govt control

There are likely to be other bases my data doesn't show.

My bold

Info from https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... encies.png

[POL]

Thanks, aviation charts don't tell you that!

[Comet102]

Thanks, aviation charts don't tell you that!

It's alright I think the original user forgot ISIL are still in Iraq.

[welshandy]

SU24 black box damaged. Flight info appears to be missing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35130953

[Stroudy]

Yeah right, like it wasn't opened first with a hammer somewhere else to 'bust it good...

[C24]

Or that it is not the original box fitted to the downed aircraft but one that has been prepared to offer data which favours the owner of the aircraft?

[Gary]

The government has announced the Tornados have used Brimstone in Syria for the first time over the weekend http://news.sky.com/story/1620629/raf-f ... amic-state

[Supra]

Looking forward to seeing the 'crane' silhouettes on the mission marks! Not exactly 'value for money' use of Brimstone?

[Stroudy]

It will be VFM if it stops them re-activating that part of the oilfield, and therefore preventing advance through fuel processing and sales.

[Vulcanone]

And so what pray tell are the cheaper alternatives to a Brimstone?

Enhanced Paveway II could have been used maybe but I doubt they are actually that much cheaper.

So answers on a post card

[C24]

From a Google search

Brimstone is between £100,000 and £175,000; Paveway (1-2?) is £22,000 per unit.

There appears to be a gap in the market for an inexpensive item performing between a 50 cal (short range) and the costly stand off ones above.

Another illustration of the gap in my 'wide' knowledge of things.

[page_verify]

Brimstone has accidentally become the preferred option in Syria and Iraq right now, despite it's relatively high cost. There are cheaper alternatives, Hellfire and Maverick etc., but they can't be or aren't able to be carried by the large twin-engine twin-seat fighter bombers. Those size of aircraft are being used because no one now wants to send a single engine (therefore lower reliability) aircraft over the grim IS held areas and most missions are armed reconnaissance rather than purely strike missions. The electro-optical kit carried today is designed for the person in the back to operate it rather than a single seater pilot. Additionally, Brimstone has both laser and radar guidance that helps it meet the very tight rules of engagement firing them into someone else's country require. Cannon fire for example doesn't provide electronic assurance of target acquisition like a missile can. Brimstone also has a small enough warhead to remove the risk of collateral damage than a larger laser guided bomb that is designed to destroy a building rather than a pickup truck. America created its Small Diameter Bomb, but I've not seen any recent mention of that being used, maybe it's just not being shouted about.

It costs more, but then you can argue they've already been bought. If they're not used, they're wasted inventory. Although you then have to decide whether or not you want to replace them. I suspect the £100,000 difference between Option 1 and Option 2 is trivial when the whole total cost of each GR4 mission is probably around 7 figures.

[C24]

Most informative, thank you.
I came across a video of an attack on a truck convoy which was hit with some type of missile and it raised in my mind just how expensive it is to destroy a truck. Hence my comment above.
It is also interesting to note that it is not possible to use everything in the armament inventory on each aircraft type.
Could two seat Typhoons be modified? We seem to be heading for more ground attack activity than was forecast twenty years ago and seem not to have quite the right kit for the job.
Just musing, don't anyone shout at me

Edit 0620hrs. Just noticed Gary's post about USAF A10.

[Vulcanone]

C24

The entire Typhoon fleet (well Tranche 2 and 3) will be capable of carrying Brimstone once its been cleared, I can't remember if they have actually started that yet however. And as for the Tranche jets well we are keeping them for the mostly Air Defence role. I'm not sure if they will be able to carry it.

Yes it costs more but if its a more clinical way of ensuring you don't wipe out the friendly bunch on the same side of the village, oh well so be it.

Tim

[page_verify]

It'll be interesting to see what benefit to the Syria missions adding the Brimstone to the Typhoon will have. I suspect it won't be as much as the GR4 retirement planners had hoped for.