UK Confirms 9 Boeing P-8's to be purchased

[Contrail1958]

As the North sea oil industry contributes so much to the English economy it
would make sense for any future asset to be based closer to it.
The Tories by the time it comes to deciding where to base the P-8's will be
needing to give the SNP a carrot because the Carriers will be finished and employment
north of the border will be in the news.
It would therefore make sense from a political solution to keep the jocks happy by
offering the P-8's at Kinloss etc. Simples...

[C24]

Why would they not be operated from RAF Wittering? As I understand the situation there, to close the base and covert it to green fields would cost too much, so why not use the space ?

Oh, in my previous post I should have written AV-8, the US Marine Harrier type

[Phoon]

As the North sea oil industry contributes so much to the English economy it
would make sense for any future asset to be based closer to it.
The Tories by the time it comes to deciding where to base the P-8's will be
needing to give the SNP a carrot because the Carriers will be finished and employment
north of the border will be in the news.
It would therefore make sense from a political solution to keep the jocks happy by
offering the P-8's at Kinloss etc. Simples...

Kinloss is not going to reopen - The handful of P-8s can easily be accommodated at Waddington. A major factor with Kinloss is that the Army would need to be relocated (Waterbeach was closed and is to be disposed of as a result of some / all of it's units moving to Kinloss) this would have to be factored in and would cost Millions finding them a suitable sized base and relocating them. In addition the runway and taxiways having been out of use for a few years are likely to be unservicable as the Army would have been very unlikely to maintain them for everyday aircraft use. The cost of a new hangar or modifications / extensions to existing and accommodation being built at Waddington is considerably less than re-activating Kinloss and relocation of it's current occupants.

[onemac]

Very interested to know where your 'information' is coming from but to answer your questions - the Army could easily be relocated to Leuchars Barracks with Barry Budden so close for training. I have spoken to Army personnel from Kinloss and they have been advised not to settle in the area (buy houses etc) as they are unlikely to be staying.

Your information on runways and taxiways is incorrect. Both have been used (almost daily) for the past few years and Kinloss is the main diversion airfiels for Lossie. Aircraft have refuelled there and even stayed overnight.

The Army is only using one hangar - the rest are under care and maintainance and that includes heating them all year round.

Al

PS - you state categorically Kinloss is not going to reopen. I'm pretty sure only a few politicians and perhaps a couple of the Chiefs of Staff have up to date information but feel free to state your involvement. FYI, I'm just a local enthusiast in possession of a fair few facts more than you

[Phoon]

Very interested to know where your 'information' is coming from but to answer your questions - the Army could easily be relocated to Leuchars Barracks with Barry Budden so close for training. I have spoken to Army personnel from Kinloss and they have been advised not to settle in the area (buy houses etc) as they are unlikely to be staying.

Your information on runways and taxiways is incorrect. Both have been used (almost daily) for the past few years and Kinloss is the main diversion airfiels for Lossie. Aircraft have refuelled there and even stayed overnight.

The Army is only using one hangar - the rest are under care and maintainance and that includes heating them all year round.

Al

PS - you state categorically Kinloss is not going to reopen. I'm pretty sure only a few politicians and perhaps a couple of the Chiefs of Staff have up to date information but feel free to state your involvement. FYI, I'm just a local enthusiast in possession of a fair few facts more than you

Keep dreaming. It just isnt going to happen. The MOD have not gone to the trouble of closing Waterbeach (selling it for development as it is valuable in the Cambridge commuter belt, along with Oakington and Bassingbourn), moving all the units north to then try to find a home for them elsewhere. Leuchars is to earmarked for more troops from Germany. As for the runways, 3 or 4 years with light use and little maintenance will hardly leave them ready to operate heavy aircraft such as P8s. Cottesmore, Honington and Wyton have become unusable for heavy aircraft very quickly.

[Mike]

Not me Al - promise.

[Thunder]

Keep dreaming. It just isnt going to happen. The MOD have not gone to the trouble of closing Waterbeach (selling it for development as it is valuable in the Cambridge commuter belt, along with Oakington and Bassingbourn), moving all the units north to then try to find a home for them elsewhere. Leuchars is to earmarked for more troops from Germany. As for the runways, 3 or 4 years with light use and little maintenance will hardly leave them ready to operate heavy aircraft such as P8s. Cottesmore, Honington and Wyton have become unusable for heavy aircraft very quickly.

The Army at Kinloss have been told not to get too comfortable, they were also instructed not to do anything to the existing infrastructure of the base including hangar-age, hardstandings, runways, taxiways, fuel storage, armament storage etc etc.... The runways and AGL system have been fully maintained along with the rest of the buildings. With runways getting re-surfaced approximately every 10 years(I think Kinloss was re surfaced about 2005) and major structural work every 25 years(Kinloss had the thresholds and touchdown areas done I think 2009/10) it still has plenty of life in it. There was also meant to be another 2 Infantry Regts moved into Kinloss by now, ask yourself why that hasn't materialized.

You've answered your own question on why the MoD sold Waterbeach, and Army units frequently move a lot more often than RAF units. Leuchars was earmarked for close on 3000 troops from Germany with nothing near that moving in so far or due to move in, so yes Leuchars could easily take the 800 'Sappers' from Kinloss, but then again there's plenty of room at Kinloss for both RAF and Army. Have the bases you mentioned above been used at all since the RAF moved out, I know Wyton had an AEF/UAS there, but did they utilize the full runway or just art of it?

[Strathayr]

Bassingbourn is still an active army base with adequate space to accommodate additional units plus more .I am sure the army families would be more than happy to move back to Cambs.

[f106dart]

Just a thought but if they where based at Waddington couldn’t they have a Det of one or 2 at Lossie?

[onemac]

Keep dreaming.

Not dreaming, merely stating an opinion based on several facts.

It just isnt going to happen

You know this for sure or just your opinion?

The MOD have not gone to the trouble of closing Waterbeach (selling it for development as it is valuable in the Cambridge commuter belt, along with Oakington and Bassingbourn), moving all the units north to then try to find a home for them elsewhere. Leuchars is to earmarked for more troops from Germany.

Looking at the MOD decisions over the past ten years they seem to have gone to a lot of trouble to close bases and move units around. Who knows what there decisions will be in the future?

As for the runways, 3 or 4 years with light use and little maintenance will hardly leave them ready to operate heavy aircraft such as P8s. Cottesmore, Honington and Wyton have become unusable for heavy aircraft very quickly.

From what I've actually seen I can assure you that there is a lot more than a 'little maintainance' going on of the runway and taxiways at Kinloss. Unlike Cottesmore, Honington and Wyton, Kinloss airfield has not been built on, the Army have been restricted in what buildings they can have and where they can access. But despite all these facts it's still my opinion and is unlikely to happen but then FC is a great place for discussion, banter etc. I'm sure it would be most helpful to our hobby for everything to be based in one location - big stuff at Waddington and small/fast stuff at Coningsby for example. What say you Warwick?

Al

[Phoon]

Keep dreaming.

Not dreaming, merely stating an opinion based on several facts.

It just isnt going to happen

You know this for sure or just your opinion?

The MOD have not gone to the trouble of closing Waterbeach (selling it for development as it is valuable in the Cambridge commuter belt, along with Oakington and Bassingbourn), moving all the units north to then try to find a home for them elsewhere. Leuchars is to earmarked for more troops from Germany.

Looking at the MOD decisions over the past ten years they seem to have gone to a lot of trouble to close bases and move units around. Who knows what there decisions will be in the future?

As for the runways, 3 or 4 years with light use and little maintenance will hardly leave them ready to operate heavy aircraft such as P8s. Cottesmore, Honington and Wyton have become unusable for heavy aircraft very quickly.

From what I've actually seen I can assure you that there is a lot more than a 'little maintainance' going on of the runway and taxiways at Kinloss. Unlike Cottesmore, Honington and Wyton, Kinloss airfield has not been built on, the Army have been restricted in what buildings they can have and where they can access. But despite all these facts it's still my opinion and is unlikely to happen but then FC is a great place for discussion, banter etc. I'm sure it would be most helpful to our hobby for everything to be based in one location - big stuff at Waddington and small/fast stuff at Coningsby for example. What say you Warwick?

Al

If the RAF or MOD had or where any further airforce use for Kinloss it would have been placed on C & M and not had Army units move in. Honington's runway was kept active for a number of years but deteriorated to the point where it became unsuitable for FJ operations. Honington, Cottesmore and Wyton's actual flying field have not been built on. Regarding runway condition - Wittering (closed for regular opertaions 2010) has a section of the runway which is unusable for FJs already and this station has been maintained.

[peejay75]

Forgive me jumping in here but what about St Mawgan?,there is the space and its right on the coast. Oh sorry its in the South West the land of the forgotten

[scimitar]

Have to agree with Al and Thunder. The army have been told not to do anything to the infrastructure. Being sappers they wanted dig things up but they're not allowed to.
One can only assume that phoon has not been at Kinloss recently or ever. The field is pretty much in exactly the same condition as it was when the Nimrods were withdrawn.
And as has been well articulated here its in regular use as a div for Lossie Typhoons and Tornados.
Cammy

[Golfer]

What squadron number?...............discuss!

[Thunder]

Don't think the RAF would put a Typhoon or Tornado down on anything but a fully serviceable runway, which leads me to a question for the Lossie regulars. Are the RHAG's rigged over at Kinloss

As for possible Sqns, it would have to be 120/201/206/42 in that order imo.

[Trenchard]

As for possible Sqns, it would have to be 120/201/206/42 in that order imo.

The Air Force decision makers don't like high numbers for squadrons - 42 maybe, but I think a lower number is more likely, 22 is my favourite

[Phoon]

Have to agree with Al and Thunder. The army have been told not to do anything to the infrastructure. Being sappers they wanted dig things up but they're not allowed to.
One can only assume that phoon has not been at Kinloss recently or ever. The field is pretty much in exactly the same condition as it was when the Nimrods were withdrawn.
And as has been well articulated here its in regular use as a div for Lossie Typhoons and Tornados.
Cammy

Your assumption is incorrect. Only one place the P8s (now assuming we get them) and that's Waddington.

[Phoon]

In addition Waddington is undergoing a massive upgrade - The runway is being improved, strengthened and lengthened, hangars are being refurbished (including an add on for tall tails to the old 51 sdn hangar) and other works. Waddington is hardly busy so why would all this work be done for existing levels of operations?

[onemac]

Your assumption is incorrect.

As opposed to your what - facts?

Nope - the only place for the P-8's to go is Kinloss.

Al

[Contrail1958]

In addition Waddington is undergoing a massive upgrade - The runway is being improved, strengthened and lengthened, hangars are being refurbished (including an add on for tall tails to the old 51 sdn hangar) and other works. Waddington is hardly busy so why would all this work be done for existing levels of operations?

Wildenrath... Millions spent after the Airfield closed
Bruggen... Again money lost after the Airforce departed in penalty clauses.
Don't think because money is spent it will change decisions years further down the line.
I'm not saying Waddington is closing by the way, it's your way of thinking.
We're better together and it's Better at Kinloss.