RAF Lossiemouth after Independence?

[Thunder]

Choperscot,
Yes, your poster is good - as far as it goes. However, it misses out a few steps in the housebuying process.

1. You decide you would like to buy your own dream house = Referendum
2. You make an offer to buy the house and agree the selling price = Negotiations
3, You further discuss what fixtures and fittings you would like (carpets, lights, Typhoons) = Negotiations
4a, You arrange a Mortgage to borrow the money = Government Gilts = what interest rate are you going to pay?
4b. Or you borrow from the Bank of mum and dad = That would be the rest of the UK then
4c. Or you spend your savings = Fat chance, UK piggy bank is empty.
5. You give the money to the seller (the UK), and in exchange You get the keys = Independence
6. You redecorate = Scottish Public/MP's decide which wall they're going to pi55 any remaining money up.
7a. You pay the Mortgage = You Tax your people and pay off whoever you borrowed from.
7b. You default. Unlikely you'll be repossessed, but no-one will want to lend to you ever again.

Now I know the Scottish house buying process is different to the rest of the UK, but is it really as simple as your process makes it look north of the border?

Cheers
Malcolm

More likely you'll have to rent it out as once you move in you then realise that you can't afford the mortgage payment and everything else that goes with it like council tax, utility bills, insurance etc etc... But of course when you change to a buy to let mortgage( you can only get these if you have very good credit history and financial collateral)the interest rate shoots up and you end up screwing the tenants for everything just to keep your head above water until they get so p'd off and move on. You're then left with a house that no one can afford and no one wants, then the inevitable happens and you get taken to court . Or you can pay the mortgage but live in darkness and without insurance but then again you need insurance to have the mortgage in the first place.

Yes it is just like buying a house

[balamorybuzzed]

Of course it's a majority of No on this forum, it's mostly RAF n exRAF n family, I must be one of very few who aren't connected to the RAF somehow! Therefore their either English born, or Loyal to Queen n country
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to work that out

There are plenty of folk on here that have no connection to the RAF. Does that mean I'm voting for independence? The reasoning on here is unbelieavable at times!

PS I'm a Kirkcaldy born died in the wool Fifer who has visited Leuchars since I was a kid in mid 70s!

[scimitar]

Chopper you seem to be as devoid of ideas and free thought as wee eck. For any avoidance of doubt and in the interests of giving you a straight answer which I accept is an alien concept to the yes campaign, I am not in the RAF, ex RAF or have family in the RAF.
Plan A, incidentally there is no plan B, C, D etc is to blackmail the rest of the UK, Europe, NATO etc in to accepting his wims. Now some could take the positives and look at other Countries run by dictators and how the armed forces benefit. So maybe a yes vote would result in 2 carriers fitted with cat & trap, 4 Squadrons of Super Hornets based at Lossie, P8's at Kinloss and transports at Leuchars but like a yes vote this is just a dream.
As for the rocket scientist bit clearly NASA's loss is our gain.

[scimitar]

Sorry I should have added I'm not English either so that must make me loyal to Queen and Country.

[clarke]

HI,
i cannot beleive this is still going on since the weekend, moderators were are you? can we dump thisdiscussion and get back to avation?
its all spec and gum bumping i am a no vote but quickly changing after reading this !

[balamorybuzzed]

No, please don't do it Mr Clarke

[Gary]

HI,
i cannot beleive this is still going on since the weekend, moderators were are you? can we dump thisdiscussion and get back to avation?
its all spec and gum bumping i am a no vote but quickly changing after reading this !

National defence and politics go hand in hand. Everyone is playing nicely so no reason to lock the thread at the moment.

[Thunder]

HI,
i cannot beleive this is still going on since the weekend, moderators were are you? can we dump thisdiscussion and get back to avation?
its all spec and gum bumping i am a no vote but quickly changing after reading this !

Really you're going to base your vote on what you read on an aviation forum?

[clarke]

Hi
i will base my vote on logic and choice and not the opinions of a avation thread, it just amazes me of the opinons of some people south of the boarder and how they think they are the centre of the universe.
Do you think most people give a tose about the pound? or were this and that will be based, its obvoius that we have came off very badly in the last defence reviews and they were political not defence decisions.look at the base closures all we are left with are the nasty glow in the dark neuclear stuff and a few stupid army bases with no soldiers in them, scotland could make it on its own but i still think the union is worth saving
But everything is ading up to a perfect storm; david cameron and upper class twats, with there side kick taging along, a weak labour leader and mad scottish party, and an aggressive russia bent on global dominance a scottish independence party that are only interested in the own political careers and last but not least a general public that cant be bother to get of there back sides and vote at any poliyical elections.
So lets get on with it and see what happens.
Dave-c

[Jazz]

...i am a no vote but quickly changing after reading this !

The mods have already commented on this thread (and again), if you look back, praising the (mostly) mature debate going on here. A rare thing on this forum, no?
If need be it can be moved to General Chat, so there's no attempt to dictate what people can freely discuss. If you want to discuss aviation only, lets have it!
This is an important subject to some, all over the UK, which is being taken seriously and shouldn't be off limits, even on an aviation forum (with the obvious defence issues involved). There's no need to stifle it, and in some cases almost resort to name calling (as you have).
You go ahead and change your vote after what you've read here! Thats so sad i'm starting to think you're trolling?

[clarke]

hi
SaudiKev so who is name calling , so i am a troll? i have been a member of this and other avations site for a long time and have contrubuted to them...
no more comments from me

Dave-c

[scimitar]

Hi
i will base my vote on logic and choice and not the opinions of a avation thread, it just amazes me of the opinons of some people south of the boarder and how they think they are the centre of the universe.
Do you think most people give a tose about the pound? or were this and that will be based, its obvoius that we have came off very badly in the last defence reviews and they were political not defence decisions.look at the base closures all we are left with are the nasty glow in the dark neuclear stuff and a few stupid army bases with no soldiers in them, scotland could make it on its own but i still think the union is worth saving
But everything is ading up to a perfect storm; david cameron and upper class twats, with there side kick taging along, a weak labour leader and mad scottish party, and an aggressive russia bent on global dominance a scottish independence party that are only interested in the own political careers and last but not least a general public that cant be bother to get of there back sides and vote at any poliyical elections.
So lets get on with it and see what happens.
Dave-c

Bit of a ninja keyboard moment here I think.
It's all well and good basing your decision on how to vote on logic and choice and thats perhaps where you should have left it. What you are saying is that no one has a right to an opinion other than yours. Must check the definition of a democracy.
Also I'm not from south of the boarder or even the border.
Perhaps reading the Dandy or Beano will better inform your decision.

[clarke]

hi
i am for democracy and part of that is free speech or how i see it, and having an fewpoint at least with the comics you stated i would get a laugh

[onemac]

I love polilyical elections - they're the best type. Good to see both sides of the subject producing strong opinions but as a long time member of this forum (albeit hanging on by the skin of my teeth) I'm neither a troll or stupid enough to call anybody mad or an upper class twit. Both these insults are fairly widespread amongst all the classes but being a politician does seem to bring out the worst in folk.

Back to the OP - if there's a split where will the new Maritime units be based? Will Scotland get rid of Trident or not? What colour will out Tutor be and does it have enough power to carry Stormshadow? Eck is going to have to negotiate very hard not to get one of the Cranwell Tutors as they keep on breaking. What happens to all the Scots squaddies in the Army/RAF/Navy - I fear there are too many of them for our Scottish Force?

The bigger question for me is how you would split the Bank of Scotland/Halifax.

Al

[Thunder]

hi
i am for democracy and part of that is free speech or how i see it, and having an fewpoint at least with the comics you stated i would get a laugh

You say your all for democracy and free speech but didn't you want this thread locked I think you've been taking lessons from Eck

[clarke]

thanks,
thunder, thats three personal attacks i have had in this web site/forum if you say you are for democracy and free speech practice it and don,t make it personnal

[ArabJazzie]

Not an insult here, just a statement of fact,

Dave Clarke has just ruined a great thread! However, there are people out there pushing the right buttons, just like any thread that involves Leuchars/Typhoon/Move/Closure! And where is the insult in what Thunder has written? Ive had some right ding dongs with Thunder and his alter ego Scotthldr, but he has never been insulting!

Something that explains my own stance on all of this is shown in a documentary about Scandinavian economies. It was on again the other night and in a nutshell, the UK Government pee'ed Oil revenues up against the wall while Norway is probably now making money out of our national debt! "Our" Government has even plundered the pension pot on more than one occasion and now they want those currently contributing to bail them out! And forget the DEFECIT, our NATIONAL DEBT IS STILL CLIMBING!!!

And can someone clarify one point please? Where is the part of HBOS that caused the need for a bail-out based and who was watching them?

Before this is locked, I will say thank you to all the guys who have attempted to put in their arguments and replies.
Arabest,
Geoff.

[Malcolm]

Something that explains my own stance on all of this is shown in a documentary about Scandinavian economies. It was on again the other night and in a nutshell, the UK Government pee'ed Oil revenues up against the wall while Norway is probably now making money out of our national debt! "Our" Government has even plundered the pension pot on more than one occasion and now they want those currently contributing to bail them out! And forget the DEFECIT, our NATIONAL DEBT IS STILL CLIMBING!!!
.

HMG income from oil and gas has only exceeded £10bn in 4 of the past 50 years, and was only £4 Bn last year. source :
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... e_2014.pdf

HMG income last year was around £612 Bn, and spending was £720 Bn. So whilst up to £10 Bn a year from oil/gas is nice to have it cannot make a significant difference. The simple fact is that we are spending too much, (or not taxing enough).

[onemac]

Mea culpa - probably

The banks are certainly a good example of incompetence and bail outs (I once had a mortgage with Northern Rock ) I can foresee the same problems with pensions and the armed forces, Driving licences and Passports, Border Control and the rail network - even Hadrians Wall although I dispute it's path. At least we have our own legal system and laws, Police Force and Tourist Board. To quote an old boss of mine - 'The 5 x F's will sustain growth in Scotland for the foreseeable future - Farming/Fishing/Forestry/Flying and Fermentation (and oil and Tourism)'. The Scottish Pound will be strong - as long as Gordon Brown doesn't get near it!

Sounds very tempting until you factor Eck and the SNP into it - then it just goes to a ball of chalk........

Al

[Thunder]

And where is the insult in what Thunder has written? Ive had some right ding dongs with Thunder and his alter ego Scotthldr, but he has never been insulting!

Geez Geoff you'll be wanting a Christmas card next

thanks,
thunder, thats three personal attacks i have had in this web site/forum if you say you are for democracy and free speech practice it and don,t make it personnal

Never made anything personnel old chap, I was merely stating a fact that you and only you made within this thread. However in the fifth post of this thread you had a swipe at Adam, you then decided to have a swipe at me in the seventh post of which I'm still waiting for you to clarify why the whole independence thing "hits a raw nerve" with me?

As for "if you say you are for democracy and free speech" it was you that said that old chap, not me.