RAF Lossiemouth after Independence?

[Mike]

Full.

A superb post, but what does it mean?

[Sky Pirate]

I have not seen anything mentioned about the fact that the MOD actually own all the military bases in Scotland, so they will continue to do what they wish with their own property whatever the outcome of the vote. Yes/No?

Hugh.

[Chuck]

To recoup all of the above: in case of a yes vote, the yes voters would like:

- keep the GBP as their currency
- keep the UK passport
- keep the UK drivers license
- keep the MoD bases established in Scotland

Sounds to me as if we all want to remain Better Together...

[onemac]

Not wishing to start a political debate here, but should Scotland go it alone, does anybody know how quickly things would change and where the RAF would relocate to?

The answer to your first question is no - there are politicians involved although the UK Government MAY have the bare bones of a backup plan but I seriously doubt if there are many of them in 'the know'. I'm also pretty sure none of them are members here so can't answer your question.

The second part of your question is easier - anywhere in England or Wales.

Personally I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that if King Eck gets his way there may be a deal cut for something like a lend/lease agreement where Eck gets the hardware and training packages in exchange for a NATO type commitment. This of course would not apply to anything at Faslane as the history of former Commonwealth countries and their rulers is not great to say the least.

One small point people are not realising the Vote on the 18th isn't about SNP Alex Salmond...

That's a difficult one. As I see it it's got as much to do with the man as it has with 'his' theories and in my personal opinion a man who wrote the SNP Defence Policy stating that all Bases in Scotland should be shut and the personnel returned south of the border one day and sometime later turns up to lead the 'Save RAF Lossiemouth' march is one who uses a political situation for his own benefit. As leader of the SNP it therefore follows that he is making it party political.

In conclusion (and I have done my own research), I believe the facts just don't add up and Eck is very successfully manipulating them for his own gain. Tornados to Marham, Typhoons to Coningsby and the Tutors/Grobs to Cranwell is my theory but I don't know nuffin'.

Al

PS - it's Independence

[ArabJazzie]

To recoup all of the above: in case of a yes vote, the yes voters would like:

- keep the GBP as their currency
- keep the UK passport
- keep the UK drivers license
- keep the MoD bases established in Scotland

Sounds to me as if we all want to remain Better Together...

To answer your points....
For an easy transition, the use of the GB pound is the easiest option. For long term i think we need to be looking for something else, but i dont think that will be the Euro either!
I cant wait for my Scottish Passport to drop through the letterbox! Sadly i think it will have British Isles on it as well!
Similar to above but i thought we all had EU driving licences now! And dont get me started on a federal europe or whatever they call it!
We still need our armed forces and to that end we need Lossie plus one other, current army bases and Faslane for the navy. We just dont need the Nuclear deterrent based in our country!

And the biggest Unionist mistake was calling the campaign Better Together and putting Eyebrows in charge!!!
Arabest,
Geoff.

PS, As someone born in another country who has a right to vote, what do you think of it all?

[POL]

Similar to above but i thought we all had EU driving licences now!

I got my license in 2009 and it quite clearly says "UK" on it.

[Malcolm]

Similar to above but i thought we all had EU driving licences now!

If you move from one EU country to another EU country, you are supposed to exchange your existing license for one issued by the new country within 6 months of your arrival there. Similarly, if you import a car from EU land into the UK, you are supposed to re-register it with DVLA within 6 months of it's import. DVLA will issue it a new UK age related number plate.

So in theory, all Scottish residents would have to exchange their UK licenses for Scottish ones within 6 months of independence. Similarly, all Scottish cars would have to be re-registered with the Scottish DVLA within 6 months. However, Scotland as a new independent country would be free to introduce any new rules and regulations it wished. Opinions differ as to wheter Scotland would automatically be part of the EU, so whether it would have to comply with EU rules on this is obviously open to debate.

Do I expect any of that to happen - No.

[ArabJazzie]

Similar to above but i thought we all had EU driving licences now!

If you move from one EU country to another EU country, you are supposed to exchange your existing license for one issued by the new country within 6 months of your arrival there. Similarly, if you import a car from EU land into the UK, you are supposed to re-register it with DVLA within 6 months of it's import. DVLA will issue it a new UK age related number plate.

So in theory, all Scottish residents would have to exchange their UK licenses for Scottish ones within 6 months of independence. Similarly, all Scottish cars would have to be re-registered with the Scottish DVLA within 6 months. However, Scotland as a new independent country would be free to introduce any new rules and regulations it wished. Opinions differ as to wheter Scotland would automatically be part of the EU, so whether it would have to comply with EU rules on this is obviously open to debate.

Do I expect any of that to happen - No.

Cheers Malcolm,
I have family in Ireland and nearly did some importing but didnt have the money at the time, more is the pity!

In the interests of hundreds of jobs in Wales, i would prefer if we went down the road of a British Isles driving licence, until such a time we could set up our own systems. On changing some rules, well i would like zero tolerance on drinking and driving!
Arabest,
Geoff.

[Chuck]

PS, As someone born in another country who has a right to vote, what do you think of it all?

Having lived in this beautiful country for over a decade now (and visited quite a few times since 1992) I feel that this whole independence talk is a total utter waste of time, effort and quite frankly, money. Businesses are suffering in one way or another waiting to see what is happening. If (God forbid) a yes vote does happen then the military in Scotland will be even further reduced and I feel that the money spent on achieving independence (specially after a yes vote) will be much better spend on projects that are in urgent need of funding. Effectively starting up a new country won't be cheap and it will have to be funded by Scotland itself. I honestly don't think Scotland has got the resources to make it work as an independent country. Some more powers for the Scottish Government perhaps, but that is as far as I would like it to go. I love living here and I am very proud to live here and be part of the 'local' community. But please don't separate the UK. It is not such a bad thing. That's my view anyway.

[Andypandy]

Typhoons will likely go to Leeming as it already has Typhoon infrastructure in place. Coningsby is pretty full up already and we are talking about 3 squadrons from Lossie. King Eck says he wants one sqn of Typhoon but that was a while ago so he may have changed his mind. How he gets round the ITAR and NEO thing is unclear so what he gets may be a stripped down shell. Not to mention the official secret act.
As for driving licences, it would be up to the Scottish gov to sort that when they see fit, same thing to register your car.

My fear is that if he gets a YES then the UK could just pull the plug. It is Eck and his cronies who say they will transition slowly but what does the UK gov say?
It is a worry

[scimitar]

"Leeming already has a Typhoon infrastructure."
Does it, when did this happen?
Nothing has changed there since the F3 was WFU except that they use the HAS's to dismantle the Tornados.

[Marty21]

If you think about it Leuchars had all the
infrastructure in place and we all know
what has happened there.!!!

Andy

[Malcolm]

Choperscot,
Yes, your poster is good - as far as it goes. However, it misses out a few steps in the housebuying process.

1. You decide you would like to buy your own dream house = Referendum
2. You make an offer to buy the house and agree the selling price = Negotiations
3, You further discuss what fixtures and fittings you would like (carpets, lights, Typhoons) = Negotiations
4a, You arrange a Mortgage to borrow the money = Government Gilts = what interest rate are you going to pay?
4b. Or you borrow from the Bank of mum and dad = That would be the rest of the UK then
4c. Or you spend your savings = Fat chance, UK piggy bank is empty.
5. You give the money to the seller (the UK), and in exchange You get the keys = Independence
6. You redecorate = Scottish Public/MP's decide which wall they're going to pi55 any remaining money up.
7a. You pay the Mortgage = You Tax your people and pay off whoever you borrowed from.
7b. You default. Unlikely you'll be repossessed, but no-one will want to lend to you ever again.

Now I know the Scottish house buying process is different to the rest of the UK, but is it really as simple as your process makes it look north of the border?

Cheers
Malcolm

[onemac]

So who will govern Scotland if the yes vote goes through? Will there be another election to decide or will the majority ruling party on the 18th just take over? How do you separate Alex and the SNP? Alex seems to be making the rules and dictating conditions to the rest of the UK and in my opinion that makes it all about Alex. I'll say it again just to P you off - it's all about Alex and the SNP and what they both strive for. HE wants to lead Scotland forward to Independence and beyond.

Al

[onemac]

No and Yes - I'll be moving to England (or further south) if the vote goes the wrong way.

Al

[scimitar]

Al I'm with you. I'll be voting no by post as I'll be in Lanzarote at the time when wee Eck is trying to drag this country back to the dark ages.
Now I really didn't want to get involved in this debate as I have an uncanny knack of upsetting some folk but really some of the p@@h that's been posted on here beggars belief.
Leeming doesn't have a Typhoon infrastructure, Leuchars is closing and Eck did nothing to save it. To be fair he jumped on Lossie bandwagon despite his previous stance on defence but hey why waste a photo opportunity.
The numpty's plan to replace Trident jobs with a joint force HQ beggars belief, joint force of what. 2 5ths of nothing is nothing but then again it's in the maths that his plans all fall down.
And god knows what will happen when he hijacks The Ryder Cup.
Wee eck and his side kick, the wi,g are that thick that they don't understand that at the moment when their promises fail they blame someone else post 18/9 if this Country is stupid enough to vote yes that the buck stops with the SNP.
Pull pin and throw.

[vulcanxl425]

Plenty of good debate from both sides .Seems to me more say NO than YES on this particular forum .

Alex Salmond himself is the greatest asset to the NO campaign.

[onemac]

Why 'of course' Ian? Perhaps it's a case of the no element speaking up making it look that way? I will always remain loyal to Queen and Country (that would be the UK) but at the same time take pride in being Scottish - you can have it both ways you know. This debate is like the 'Ford vs Vauxhall' debate - it's a matter of opinion and we all have one. Throwing Renault and Audi into the equation may hardly change your opinion but one thing is for sure - there's no way I'm pledging allegiance to Eck and the like

Al

PS - I'm probably a closet Tory but not being a rocket scientist it's more likely I have tendencies towards Green/Liberal/Monster Raving Loonie etc.

[hertsman]

...should Scotland go it alone, does anybody know how quickly things would change and where the RAF would relocate to?

The first question, the pace of change, is hard for anyone to pin down. There is no doubt that pulling existing structures apart would be very time consuming as it is breaking new ground and unexpected as well as anticipated issues would arise. My guess is the answer would be measured in years. As to where the RAF allocation of Scottish based assets will go, well, as far as RAF fast jets are concerned, there are only two realistic options in my opinion - Coningsby or Marham, as these are already destined to become the RAF's main bases for the future two-jet type service. Any residual Tornados would likely go to Marham until retirement, assuming the OSD does not come first, and Typhoons to Coningsby. I think it unlikely there would be any appetite in the near term to sink more money into restructuring other bases to accept either Typhoon or F35.

I have also been following the impassioned political debate. It seems to me that there are two threads to this issue - one is financial and one emotional.

Economically, independence is beset with huge uncertainty, and uncertainty and financial success are very uncomfortable bedfellows in the markets which Scotland will have to subject itself to. That does not mean it is impossible for an independent country to make its way, but it is highly risky. Of course with high risk there could also come high reward. Perhaps a new nation could be so rejuvenated and energised as to make a success of it. One thing is certain, just being independent will not, by itself, guarantee financial success. It will take a huge and concerted effort by the whole nation to fight its way through, especially in the early years when any fledging nation could die of the common cold.

Emotionally, the right to self-determination is something that ought not be denied. If 'freedom' is enough in itself for the voters in Scotland, then so be it. If it is prize enough even if economically the country should fail, well at least it would be by its own hand not another's. If Scotland should go its own way, good luck. I hope it works, as that would then be in the best interests of both it and rUK. If not, well with power comes the responsibility. The buck will stop in Holyrood.

Because I am not emotionally involved in the process, my financial background tells me that remaining in the UK is in the best economic interests of both Scotland and rUK. It is the least risky and gives most certainty, and does not divert resources from productive uses to potentially destructive divorce proceedings.

I am not a Scot, nor do I live in Scotland, so I don't have a say, just an opinion. But if I did have a vote, which where would I place my cross? Unless faced with the question for real it's impossible to say, but I suspect the my decision would be far harder to make than I have just suggested.

In the final analysis, this is a democratic process and the will of the people will prevail, which is as it should be.

hertsman

[Thunder]

As I said earlier on within this thread the Blueprint for Scottish Independence is all based upon SNP policies/dreams of which they don't even have half the answers to. As for the dictator bit, isn't a dictator someone that dictates under absolute power which is exactly what Eck and Nic are doing, they are dictating to the whole of Scotland, The UK, Europe, Nato, The UN and The World what is going to happen if the YES vote is successful, but can they back it up.... no they can't and they are going to make themselves and Scotland in general look like ******* idiots when it all goes pear shaped.

No other party want's it and don't give me the Scottish Labour party have been made to back the "Better Together" campaign as Labour will not gain a Westminster majority without the Scot's vote. There's plenty of Labour voters in England without them having to worry about us North of the Border.

Oh and I'm not ex RAF or connected to the RAF, I'm born and bred Elgin with working class parents from Elgin and Forres, not an ounce of English in me.