Another close call (Typhoon at Waddington)

[Nighthawke]

Why? The point has already been made that this is a forum for discussion and if you don't like it then don't read it! Previous comment not mine - but one with which I happen to agree.

[C24]

I did not express myself clearly enough about the 'piano keys'. They represent the start of the landing area & touchdown before them is not the correct method.
I would not argue about the ILS point as it is several years since I last attempted one. I do remember that it was recommended to move from instruments to visual just before touchdown & be ready to overshoot.

re the above
Ok I give up but please continue in my absence.

[Focal_Plane]

Why? The point has already been made that this is a forum for discussion and if you don't like it then don't read it! Previous comment not mine - but one with which I happen to agree.

Well the problem is there`s nothing to discuss and I can`t see why the thread was started.

Anyone who spent all those years at Waddington when the ACMI was active (including several of the posters in this thread), or has spent any time as an enthusiast, will surely recall the fence being struck by jets on recovery several times. That`s why they eventually installed a "frangible" fence, then painted it red and white. The approach to Waddington caught several pilots out over the years, possibly because the runway dips away quite quickly. It`s a fact, pilots do make errors of judgement, everyone knows that and anybody with a modicum of sense who follows aviation wouldn`t sit under or on the approach lights. There`s also a chance of a technical problem; look how many aircraft have crashed on approach going back over the years.

So it`s all well known, it`s all common sense and the thread is just pointless. Don`t stand under the approach, sit there in your deck chair, eat your picnic, sunbathe, walk your dog or take your kids to be deafened unless you have a death wish.

To make things worse I`ve even added to the drivel now and don`t get me started about people sitting on the approach lights at Coningsby whilst the Typhoons do "go-arounds". PLEASE NOTE for all those who haven`t got 20 - 20 vision or lack that modicum of common sense I mentioned - Coningsby has recently got a red and white approach METAL FENCE on the 07 end. This is for a very good reason!

Best of luck with the rest of this thread, wherever it`s leading?

[flyingslug_0]

On a lighter note. (not if your a cow)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pfZiTDchH0

[Cheesy]

Hmmmmmm ....... I'm not 100% sure why I copied my post twice!

*Curses at new mobile phone*

Repeated post deleted.

Apologies!

[Cheesy]

Wrong

The piano keys are placed at the beginning of the runway to indicate where the landing part of the runway begins, the landing zone is normally past that point and has it's own indications. That's why the glide slope of an ILS isn't at the end of the runway and is approx. 500ft further down

Technically correct - but wrong in this case. An FJ pilot is expected to transfer visually to a touchdown point on the numbers - ie. immediately beyond the piano keys. No self respecting FJ pilot would plan to land at the IF touchdown point (the PAPIs - unless on an IF approach of course!). There is that old adage about runway behind you being useless.

There is no way that this would have been a calculated stunt - anyone who could even spout this nonsense clearly has no appreciation of aviation or the professionalism of the pilot whose wages you pay. Mistakes do happen and there are a number of factors that could have affected the approach path of the ac; wind-shear or even an overcorrection for the thermals generated by the road on short finals. Dave Chapman wrote that this was a 'stupid thing to do'. A silly comment really as this incident will have been a mistake. It's a bit like saying that accidently scuffing the car tyres when parking is a stupid thing to do; you've all done it - the difference for an FJ pilot is the fact that a small error has larger consequence.

Finally, it is fair to say that standing in the undershoot like the individuals did in this case is asking for trouble. There will be lights to control the road when ac are on finals - this is a measure to protect the public who might be driving along the road. Why does a 'tog feel that he or she should be invulnerable. If you are going to place yourself in harms way in the undershoot of a runway then you need to take personal responsibility for your safety. There is no way the Typhoon pilot is thinking about 'older couple who were sat in their chairs directly below who ended up on the floor'. That older couple should count themselves lucky that the Typhoon mate didn't have a significant birdstike short-finals; the Typhoon pilot would eject and survive, the Typhoon would probably park itself in the vicinity of the older couple - whose fault would their presumed deaths be?

Regards,

Cheesy

[Tailplane]

The OP video made the news this morning, entitled, "Low flying fighter jet causes panic, spectator captures incredible moment on film".

[flyingslug_0]

Thank You Cheesy for putting the FJ pilot point across. I for one appreciate hearing direct from a very experienced FJ pilot
We've heard views from those that were there, we've heard various theorist/facts and we've discussed all sorts of what ifs and what could have beens.
If this thread is to continue, let's keep it to the topic. The moment the issue becomes personal then I can't see what any of us can learn from it.
This is the last ill say about it.... Be safe,use your common and enjoy this hobby.

[C24]

Focal_Plane's comment about the new metal fence at 07 , Coningsby "forces me" to rejoin this thread.

Why make it so sturdy?
And whilst I'm here, having seen the video several times now, my heart goes out to the pilot-definitely an "Oh s...!" moment.

Tigermoth incident. In fairness to the instructor, the cow was wearing brown/white camo. Of course, everyone offers flying instruction in fields containing livestock.
Enjoy the week

[GOOSE]

"Here, here" Steve

[blakey]

Waddo has its own spectators area so why were the guys under the approach USING IT!!!

Because the RAF/MOD/Lincolnshire Police deem it too dangerous to have it open !!!!

No really you couldnt make it up

[T_J]

Focal_Plane's comment about the new metal fence at 07 , Coningsby "forces me" to rejoin this thread.

Why make it so sturdy?

Probably due to the incidents in the past? During 2007 I witness a go around by a Typhoon that blew the old wooden fence down. Parts of the wooden panel splintered and were blasted across the road. They are also drivers that jump the lights so probably the decision was taken to install the metal fence to prevent flying debris?

Two young lads were standing immediately to the left when the jet-blast blew the fence to pieces. They had a lucky escape as they had been standing if front of the panel previously when aircraft were landing. The photo was taken after the panel and debris was removed from the road.

[Viper28]

One point that seems to have been missed here is that maybe the pilot did get it wrong (or hit turbulance or whatever) and realised the issue. At that point the procedure would be, I presume to go around. However, to do that at that height, rate of sink and power settings, you going to have slam open the throttles and clean up. With a unpopulated, approach / underrun - not an issue. We a load of people in it, 40,000lb of thrust on their heads is going to do a lot more damage than coming in low and short did. In that case the pilot would be damned if he did, and damned if he didn't.

[baz1]

"The OP video made the news this morning, entitled, "Low flying fighter jet causes panic, spectator captures incredible moment on film".

and that's the point, because of this it draws more attention to what folks do around airfields, don't be surprised if things change...and I don't mean for the better!!! MP's,Journo's and any other busy body who wants to has just been given, (by an enthusiast) exactly what they want..AMMO to curtail us all doing what we enjoy. Waddo has its own spectators area so why were the guys under the approach USING IT!!! personally I don't fancy getting roasted by 20,000lbs of thrust in reheat if a Tiffie has to do a bolter...OR worse still causing the pilot to adjust his approach cause i'm standing on a stepladder 3 feet over the height of the fence....common sense people!!

nosense would be a better word!

[Thunder]

I've read the first two pages of this topic and without reading the rest I'll make my point, so if it's already be said before I apologize.


Any landing that involves the tyres touching the concrete in front of the Green Threshold bar would be deemed as "short", barely making the concrete is pure dangerous.

From memory RW20 at Waddington has the threshold bar about 15ft in from the start of the concrete, so where the Typhoon actually hit the concrete would be about right, however his height going over the A15 would appear to be questionable especially with it being airshow weekend the tower must've known there was an influx of people standing in or next to the approach/undershoot and should've instructed all aircraft to land long.

It always puzzled me why RW20 at Waddington hasn't got a displaced threshold with the A15 being so close, traffic lights are ok if people obey them but it only takes one numpty to ignore in order to cause a major incident.

[21zebra]

ive been standing in that area for years,i have read these posts and there are some good points that have made me realize that I shouldn't stand there,
how close should we stand with out being stupid then? im going to fairford this week,i always stand under the approach there by wheelford,is that ecceptable?
To the defence of idiots like me,there are no signs telling pedestrians to not stand there,the police constantly pass by and do nothing so it has allways seemed an ok thing to do, I only stand there on the Thursday and Fridays as its full of people and familys on the weekend, did anyone ever notice that there is a man who brings a family of small children on the weekends with a big platform type ladder and sits the kids on top of the red/white fence right in the middle, even I thought it was stupid,i don't think the typhoon was as low as it was made out to be,i hope that it wont mean that future years the area will be out of bounds because of this.

Wow! that's a strong set of ladders

[img][IMG]http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j159/ ... 15-006.jpg[/img][/img]

[Supra]

WOW!... so lucky to get that picture. A fine gaggle of 'Lesser Crested Knobs' perching for a rest on their northerly migration. (note the car facing Lincoln??)

[Tom.Joyce]

ive been standing in that area for years,i have read these posts and there are some good points that have made me realize that I shouldn't stand there,
how close should we stand with out being stupid then? im going to fairford this week,i always stand under the approach there by wheelford,is that ecceptable?
To the defence of idiots like me,there are no signs telling pedestrians to not stand there,the police constantly pass by and do nothing so it has allways seemed an ok thing to do, I only stand there on the Thursday and Fridays as its full of people and familys on the weekend, did anyone ever notice that there is a man who brings a family of small children on the weekends with a big platform type ladder and sits the kids on top of the red/white fence right in the middle, even I thought it was stupid,i don't think the typhoon was as low as it was made out to be,i hope that it wont mean that future years the area will be out of bounds because of this.

I drove past Fairford last night, it would seem that the temporary barriers at the end of the approach are more substantial this year...... and there are indeed now signs attached to them......

[baz1]

ive been standing in that area for years,i have read these posts and there are some good points that have made me realize that I shouldn't stand there,
how close should we stand with out being stupid then? im going to fairford this week,i always stand under the approach there by wheelford,is that ecceptable?
To the defence of idiots like me,there are no signs telling pedestrians to not stand there,the police constantly pass by and do nothing so it has allways seemed an ok thing to do, I only stand there on the Thursday and Fridays as its full of people and familys on the weekend, did anyone ever notice that there is a man who brings a family of small children on the weekends with a big platform type ladder and sits the kids on top of the red/white fence right in the middle, even I thought it was stupid,i don't think the typhoon was as low as it was made out to be,i hope that it wont mean that future years the area will be out of bounds because of this.

so the next thing that will happen will be idiots standing in the middle of the road when the lights red???

[onemac]

A 41 Sqn (marked) Typhoon soared over the fence at runway 23 last night - by at least two feet. Tourists threw themselves to the ground as they stood in front of the new notice advising members of the public not to stand there beacuse of the danger (to all concerned). Unfortunately there is no video of the event but I thought the masses may be interested.........

Al