RAF Waddington airshow 2011

[Sheff]

Think it's just the usual problem - some people immediately answer posts without reading all the foregoing comments. I've already explained (on this thread and on others) what I'm getting-at, but some people seem to have missed these points, or they've chosen to ignore them.

Naturally, I don't imagine everyone would agree with me, but on the other hand, I fear that far too many people are just not stopping to look at air shows (and Waddington in particular in this instance) objectively. This endless "they are doing the best they can" and "it is as good as it can get" commentary is, quite simply, rubbish. If it isn't rubbish, then maybe someone can explain why? It's utterly pointless to judge a show by the amount of work that the staff put into it. Why would that be of any relevance to the customer?

Point is this - Waddington's show could be far better. It just needs to be re-organised from scratch with different aims, different concepts and a different attitude from the show organisers upwards. However, as long as we all keep saying "good job" then nothing is ever going to get any better. I know I'm repeating myself here but it seems that some people can't be bothered to read-back more than a few paragraphs!

[SteveS]

We've had this argument four hundred million times before, so I'm going to lock this thread until tomorrow when people have calmed down. If you want to argue, do it by PM.

[SteveS]

Unlocked again but no more arguing please, try to stick to the airshow itself rather than how hard to organisers work.

Steve

[cottesmore09]

Unlocked again but no more arguing please, try to stick to the airshow itself rather than how hard to organisers work.

Steve

+1

[tomcat79uk]

Anyone seen the Blades routine for this season?

I was amazed watching them at Leuchars last year they really did pull out all the stops and put on a great display actually preferred that display to the reds display.Something I am looking forward to this year is seeing the Blades in action again.Top class display team for me.

[jon93]

As we get closer I was wondering if I coming from the north will it be quicker going down the A1 and cutting across into waddington or take the normal A15, trying to save a bit of time thats all as last year the queues were well horrific.

[Mayfly]

I must admit I've always been there by 8o'clock and never suffered, however I do realise that if you live a fair distance away it's not that easy. Walking down the static line at 9 it's fairly clear but by 9.30 getting quite busy.

[stupot27]

well sheff i think you should go to the waddo show i,ll even pay for your ticket then you could set up your stall and voice your opinions there for everyone to hear you and i dare bet you would have a que all day long but your not that strong or brave to do that yes you shout and moan on here but have something strong to back up your argument. i think there will be alot of people offering to buy your ticket so come on sheff what you say

[Sheff]

I say you're bonkers. If you have anything useful to say then please say it, otherwise I fear you're simply wasting people's time

[stupot27]

thats a no i dare,nt come there then

[SteveS]

OI!!!

Quiet please.

[GOOSE]

Sheff, you know your stuff and can probably write rings around many of us but in my experience, once you have developed a mindset, no matter what or how persuasive anyone else's argument is, you don't seem to be able to, or even want to consider opinions other than your own?

Please do not take this as an attack but I have always found debate to be stimulating and rewarding. A closed and possibly blinkered mind doesn't seem healthy to me, especially on an aviation forum where the whole point is discussion?

I'd be interested in how far forward you've taken your alternative views on UK Airshows. To what extent you've made your feelings known directly to show organisers and to which one's you've given your ideas to?

[MacksAviation]

Goose I think you will find that the former PM Gordon Brown called a woman whilst on the campaign trail for the last election exactly what Sheff is ..................

[GOOSE]

Now, now, keep it adult

[Sheff]

once you have developed a mindset...

Well not quite, it's more a case of expressing a viewpoint and then arguing it with other people. Obviously, if the view has any validity then it should be capable of being defended. I assume that this also applies to other people's views too - that's how a debate works. But as we can see from the previous posts, we're never going to get a debate here, just the usual childishness. In all seriousness, I sometimes wonder what some of these guys actually want from a forum. Is it really a forum for discussion or is it just a medium for mutual frenzy-whipping? It's a great pity that the people who invest so much effort in issuing insults (and pretty unimaginative ones at that) can't use their energies to say something useful that contributes to a debate. Or is this because they actually have nothing useful to say?

I'd be interested in how far forward you've taken your alternative views on UK Airshows
We've gone round in circles for many years. I've discussed the matter with RAF people, with aerospace publishers and enthusiasts, but as I've said before, nothing will change until enthusiasts stop passively accepting increasingly poor shows and get enough guts to say something. Likewise, little can happen until this viewpoint becomes strong enough to convince the media to express the same view. Airshow organisers have no motivation to change anything while the tickets keep getting sold.

Anyway, I've tried to stir-up some discussion but it seems clear that the only people who want to post anything here are the ones who want to convince themselves that the Waddington show is going to be great, no matter what one says to counter that notion. Naturally, I hope everyone enjoys the show, but let's be honest about this - the show is clearly going to be the poorest yet, saved only by a Vulcan and the Thunderbirds. One can wrap-up the show in any way one likes with all manner of reasons and excuses, but by any standards it is a very poor and very disappointing show. If some people think it's good enough then fine, but make no mistake - if you keep on convincing yourself that it's great, it is simply going to get worse. That's the logical outcome of this mind set.

[Snafu]

I have different hats on regarding the Waddo experience. I'll spend 3 days in the spotters parking area watching arrivals and departures and the show days taking my wife, mum etc to enjoy the days out. I'd love to see more exotic acts to satisfy the enthusiast in me, but admit I'm happy to see a good selection of planes to photograph.

The wife is treating me to the Bomber Harris chalet experience on the Sunday, which I can't wait for. I've never seen the Thunderbirds either, so looking forward to that. Airshows will never be what they were...and in some respects, thank goodness....the godawful Finningley toilets etc and I'll continue to support the shows whilst we still can.

No doubt there'll be a time when we get asked "What's an airshow?"

[Richard B]

No good dwelling on the past, thou you do have a pont with regards on getting a good show line up.
with a decent budget and some good planning a decent line can be got.

If you want to dwell on past shows then the ATC team that stood on the parish roof of Clophill village, could wangle a good airshow for the village fete.
would make most shows of today look tame, all done with no budget i think.

you also have to look at recent events like in Turkey, with a free weeeknd and some nice aircraft all for free and a good line up.
plus other top shows in europe all free and good line ups.

with big shows in the Uk with gate figures of in the hundreds of thousands at £20 to £40, plus all the stall holders very expensive fees, there is money.
porta loos do not cost a lot as many make out.

Why waddo can not hold back a Nimrod for a good bye flight to the locals of LIncoln,+ airshow crowd.

[pako-2008]

If you want to dwell on past shows then the ATC team that stood on the parish roof of Clophill village, could wangle a good airshow for the village fete.
would make most shows of today look tame, all done with no budget i think.

Wow, you've just opened up the memory bank.

Clophill fete was the sole reason that got me into this hobby. I spent my youth growing up to this show being a 10 minute walk from where I live and also Cranfield not far up the road. Having a bloke in the village high up in the RAF obviously had its perks. He always had a way of securing something special.

Take a look at the events history, for a small village fete it's incredible:

1981
Jaguar

1982
Battle of Britain Memorial Flight
Pitts Special aerobatic aircraft (Luton Airport)

1983
RF4C Phantom (USAF)

1985
Battle of Britain Memorial Flight
RF4E Phantom (USAF)

1986
Battle of Britain Memorial Flight
F-16 Fighting Falcon (USAF)
A-10 Thunderbolt (USAF)

1987
Battle of Britain Memorial Flight
RF4J Phantom
2 A-10s (USAF)
Mosquito (British Aerospace)

1988
Battle of Britain Memorial Flight
Vulcan
Chinook helicopter
Gazelle helicopter
F-111 (USAF)
3 A-10s (USAF), Airfield attack

1989
Battle of Britain Memorial Flight
Fairey Firefly (Royal Navy Historic Flight)
Nimrod
Tornado GR1
Harrier GR3
2 Jet Provost
Bulldog
Gazelle helicopter
F-111 (USAF)

1990
Battle of Britain Memorial Flight
Jaguar
Tornado F3
Hawk
2 Jet Provost
Bulldog
Vulcan
2 Tucano

1991
Battle of Britain Memorial Flight
Vulcan
Bulldog
Tucano
Crunchie Flying Circus (Cadburys)
2 Wessex helicopter
Nimrod
Hawk
Tornado GR1
Shackleton
2 Jet Provost
Jetstream

1992
Vulcan
Pitts Special aerobatic aircraft (Aviation Metals)
2 Tucano
2 Jet Provost
Tornado GR1
Chinook helicopter
Harrier GR5
2 Hawk
Tiger Moth & wingwalker (Flying Tigers)
Nimrod
Hercules
2 Spitfire (Battle of Britain Memorial Flight)
Jaguar
2 Wessex helicopters
4 Tornado GR1, Airfield attack

1993
Spitfire & Hurricane (Battle of Britain Memorial Flight)
Tornado GR1
Tornado F3
Nimrod
2 Tucano
Bulldog
2 Wessex Helicopters
Hawk
Sea King (Royal Navy)
2 Harriers GR5
Red Arrows

1994
Lancaster & Spitfire (Battle of Britain Memorial Flight)
Tornado GR1
Tornado F3
Nimrod
2 Tucano
C130 Super Talon II Hercules (USAF)
HC130P Hercules (USAF)
2 Hawk
4 F18 Hornets (Canadian Air Force)
2 Harrier GR7
Red Arrows
Jaguar
3 Tornado GR1 (RAF, Luftwaffe, Italian)
Sukhoi SU-31 (Richard Goode)

1995
DC3 Dakota
Tornado GR1
Tornado F3
Nimrod
Hercules
Hawk
2 Harrier GR7
Red Arrows
Jaguar
F-111 (USAF - Cannon AFB, New Mexico)
B-52 (USAF - Barksdale AFB, New Mexico)
F-27 (Royal Netherlands Air Force)
F-16 (Royal Netherlands Air Force)

Weather casualties
Red Arrows
3 Tornado GR1 (RAF, Luftwaffe, Italian)
Tucano
F-4E Phantom (German Air Force)
2 Bulldogs

1996
Tristar plus VC10 (2) formation
EC3D Sentry
C-130 (x5) formation
Tornado GR1
Harrier GR7 (x2)
Jaguar
B-1B Lancer (x2) (USAF, Ellsworth AFB, South Dakota)
B-52 Stratofortress (USAF, Barksdale AFB, Louisiana)

1997
Tornado GR1
Harrier GR7
C-130P Hercules (USAFE, Mildenhall)
KC135 Stratotanker (USAFE, Mildenhall)
B-1B Lancer (USAF, Dyess AFB, Texas)

1998
Weather casualties
Tornado F3 (x2)
Harrier GR7 (x2)
Jaguar
C-130P Hercules (USAFE, Mildenhall)
KC135 Stratotanker (USAFE, Mildenhall)
B-1B Lancer (USAF, Dyess AFB, Texas)

1999
Spitfire (Battle of Britain Memorial Flight)
Jaguar

World conflict casualties
Tornado F3 (x2)
Harrier GR7 (x2)
C-130 Hercules
C-130P Hercules (USAFE, Mildenhall)
KC135 (USAFE, Mildenhall)
B-1B Lancer (USAF, Ellsworth AFB, South Dakota)
B-52 Stratofortress (USAF, Minot AFB, North Dakota)


Sorry to go off topic here, although much of this thread lately has been off topic, but I couldn't help but reminisce.

[Sheff]

Why waddo can not hold back a Nimrod for a good bye flight to the locals of LIncoln,+ airshow crowd.

Agreed. It says a lot about the show. All the bleating about what a great job they do and how they try to cater for enthusiasts. Can't even postpone a final flight of a unique aircraft for a couple of days? Come on, that's just ridiculous.

[Mayfly]

I don't believe for one minute this a station or a squadron decision. I'm sure if they could delay the last flight until after airshow w/e they would. Decisions about disbandment go way beyond station level.