RAF plans huge cuts in planes and bases

[benyboy]

The Navy have been showing off there subs on BBC news today. Talking about why they are important to UK defence. Maybe the RAF will do the same.
Whats next a phone vote.

[Unknown74]

If so VOTE RAF........

[gamecock]

From today's FT:

The Royal Air Force is expected to bear the brunt of what one industry executive described as a "gruesome" budget planning round for 2010

Full article here:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a6407b12-e84f ... ck_check=1

[Sheff]

It's laughable. The MoD is obsessing with Afghanistan with no thought for what happens when we finally pull out. The Army has become the priority but when we bring the troops home, then what? Oh yes of course, the Government announces that we have far too many troops and support equipment and conveniently chops another big chunk out of the budget, never to be seen again. You can see it coming.

One wonders how the RAF has become the victim when it's the Navy that has no obvious role either now or in the future. Sounds suspiciously like history repeating itself again with no clear role for the Navy but plenty of Navy people with clout, fighting to justify their existence.

If the carriers and JSF survive and the RAF suffers major cuts it will be the biggest and most shambolic disgrace in the MoD's history - and that's saying something!

The thing that really annoys me is that the electorate has absolutely no means of objecting to this scandal. I mean, who could we vote for who thinks any differently? But then the major portion of the electorate can't think beyond Child Benefit. Where's my passport, I'm off!

[RichC]

Did anyone see Brown's false smile when he was having his pic taken with our forces in Afghanistan?

The forces should have boycotted him. Why are they smiling and pleased to see a leader who is cutting their jobs when they get home?
They should have snubbed him publically on TV news and told him to go home.

He is a disgrace to this country... the more bags that get under his eyes the better, he deserves to look like crap after his decisions on the defence of this country. Especially when he is giving 1.5bn to other countries at the same frigging time that he cutting our own countries jobs and equipment.

I hope the bags under his eyes touch the floor.... or he gets what the Italian PM got yesterday. The halfwit.

[Sheff]

Cheryl Cole for Defence Minister! Rah!

[Sheff]

I don't think it's wrong to highlight the irrelevance of the RN. It's okay to accept that some naval forces are required for territorial protection (Falklands certainly) but this is a long, long way from the sophisticated naval forces which we currently maintain. The piracy issue is almost farcical of course, when we have vessels patrolling seas where they're largely unable to take any meaningful action when the situation merits it. More to the point, it's another issue where Britain seems to be assuming a responsibility which other nations seem all too willing to leave to others. But in wider terms, my point is that the main fighting capability of the RN looks increasingly like an anachronism, especially when the RAF's fighting ability will soon have dwindled to a point at which it no longer seems to have any purpose, other than directly supporting ground forces engaged on whatever crusade our beloved Government chooses to embark upon. If we can not (or will not) maintain an effective RAF, then it's ludicrous to suppose that we should maintain a relatively large Navy.

Clearly, the RAF will soon have no significant attack or defence capability. Unless most of us are woefully wrong in our assumptions, the Harriers will be gone and most if not all of the Tornado force will be gone too. We will have just the Typhoon (in far fewer numbers than originally envisaged) and maybe (just maybe) some F-35's too. In short, we will have nothing which could be regarded as a serious and effective defensive/offensive force. Should the unthinkable occur and a major conflict with a major foreign power look likely, we are truly stuck for a response, other than the hammer blow of a nuclear strike. It's clear that our Government is obsessively geared towards the support of overseas campaigns to the exclusion of everything else. If that is now the case, then the notion of maintaining a large and capable naval force is just absurd. For what precisely?

As we've discussed before, the concept of moving the Nimrods to Waddington was a good idea when it was first suggested years ago and now that the E-3 fleet is to be cut, it does make perfect sense to close Kinloss and I think everyone will be surprised if this move doesn't happen. As for Lossie, it all depends on the F-35. My view is that the F-35 (and carrier programme) will not survive next year's Defence Review. There's a slim chance that it will (because of the political need to satisfy the usual fuss made by the Navy when it's under threat) and because of the obvious political opportunity to appease the RAF by giving them a handful of new toys, in the hope that these will somehow make-up for the massive cuts made elsewhere (and of course the industrial benefits associated with the programmes too). But I think the proverbial pot is just too empty to even support this cynical move. As for Marham, the base's fate resides with the Tornado and if the fleet is severely cut (or dumped entirely) then the base will close too. My guess is that in a few years from now, our front-line attack/defence bases will comprise of just two - Coningsby and Leuchars.

It's lamentable if not ludicrous. It's history repeating itself yet again. Short-sighted politicians wilfully ignoring the risks of reducing our fighting ability not only to a point where effectiveness is reduced, but to a point where there is no effective ability at all. What, precisely, will 60-70 serviceable Typhoons (and nothing else) be able to achieve if called-upon? We may as well dump the whole lot!

It's certainly an interesting and unique time in our history. Before long we will have gone far beyond a stage where the RAF has a much-reduced fighting ability. It will have no ability at all. The RAF's sole purpose will be the support of ground forces until such a stage where our Government runs-out of crusades and decides to dispose of the ground forces too. I've had such conversations with RAF officers before, along the lines of how it will be an achievement if the RAF actually reaches its 100th anniversary. I'm starting to think that such comments weren't as comical as they first sounded! The tragic aspect of the sorry situation is that we're powerless to do anything about it. Our politicians are all speaking with the same voice.

Switch the lights off on the way out!

[jagmadandy]

Well, whatever happens, cuts will be announced today following the announcement of the procurement of 20 new Chinooks! It appears these won't be ready until 2013 though. As Gerald Howarth MP pointed out this morning, if Gordon TaliBrown hadn't cut £1.5bn out of the helicopter programme some while back, we wouldn't be in this mess now! Who is the real enemy? Maybe it starts with 'B'!

2013!?!? What are they building them out of? Matchsticks?

[urkles]

Countries around the world are almagamating their Forces, Canadaian Armed Forces has been in existense for ages. Does it seem likely that in the future we are going to go down the same path?

The British Armed Forces , where all 3 services are joined?

Time for a revolution me thinks!

[TonyO]

Well, whatever happens, cuts will be announced today following the announcement of the procurement of 20 new Chinooks! It appears these won't be ready until 2013 though. As Gerald Howarth MP pointed out this morning, if Gordon TaliBrown hadn't cut £1.5bn out of the helicopter programme some while back, we wouldn't be in this mess now! Who is the real enemy? Maybe it starts with 'B'!

2013!?!? What are they building them out of? Matchsticks?

That and the fact that we are at the back of an enormous order backlog, Boeing can't build the things fast enough...

[Gary]

Bit of latest news story on the BBC news website

The BBC understands RAF Cottesmore in Rutland faces closure, with the Harriers based there moving to RAF Wittering before being phased out of service altogether earlier than planned.

The Tornado force based at RAF Lossiemouth and RAF Marham in Norfolk will lose one squadron and it is thought parts of RAF Kinloss, in Moray, could be mothballed.

Full story http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8413135.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Sheff]

Well that's the Harrier's fate sealed I guess. One wonders if they will even bother relocating to Wittering or if it will be more a case of running-down Cottesmore first and then disposing of the whole fleet. Brilliant political manoeuvring - announce the first cuts but cover their tracks with an order for more Chinooks which might not even arrive until we've pulled-out of Afghanistan.

Absolute joke isn't it - obsess about Afghanistan and completely fail to address the UK's defence on the assumption that the public are too stupid to notice what's happening. Sad thing is, the public are too stupid to realise what's happening.

[HighlandSniper]

It's quite clear that Brown and his cronies don't give a sh!t about defence, it's all about their personal and political agendas. Brown's false smiles and pathetic semi-literate letters to the next of kin of dead soldiers don't convince anyone except perhaps his politically corrupt followers.

Even if we get a change of government sometime in the next six months or so, I don't see anything changing as the proposed changes can be blamed on Brown and his bunch of bandits. We can but hope that there may be some wiser thinking about advance commitments but I wouldn't put money on it.

[The Phantom]

It's quite clear that Brown and his cronies don't give a sh!t about defence, it's all about their personal and political agendas. Brown's false smiles and pathetic semi-literate letters to the next of kin of dead soldiers don't convince anyone except perhaps his politically corrupt followers.

I don't think he's managed anything semi-literate yet!!

[HighlandSniper]

I've just heard that a four ship of Harriers has just taken off for Copenhagen! Mission: to Paveway the Hopeless, hapless ba****d of a pm! Hmm wishful thinking!

If there's a whip-round for the fuel, I'll put in a tenner

[Jazstrzab]

They have,nt got a b****y clue and yet they still commit us to wars, how can you fight a war when you have,nt the equipment to do so. Juggle it all around to rob Peter to pay Paul, alrite when you want a new fitted kitchen though. Just signed the petition.
Regards Jazstrab,
M.U.F.C.(The Religion)

[RichC]

Cottesmore to Close
1 Sqn of Harriers to go. All others to go to Wittering.
All MR2 Nimrods to go 12 months early and a reduction of MRA4 airframes (again).
Two Squadrons of Tornado and Harriers to go eventually.

Typhoon upgrade to get going ASAP.

[gonk]

But bobajob said alot and told you nothing,we are going to have to wait and find out in the new year.

[mrlongbow]

The new Nimrod airframes will be delayed into service, not cut again. Well not yet...wait until next year!

[Pen Pusher]

Details on MoD Web

Brian