Strategic Defence Review - 2025

[Alf]

If F-35A isn’t an option then F-15EX would be a good if not better choice for a nuclear capable multi role aircraft, but at £10m more expensive than the F-35. Not sure how operating costs compare but i’d imagine the F15EX, would be substantially more. Not sure that boom equipped A330’s are vitally necessary(it makes sense sure), but none of the other European F-35 operators(with the exception of Italy), operate boom equipped tankers.

Norway, Netherlands, Poland and Germany are all or are about to be F-35A operators and all have boom equipped A330 MRTT as part of the joint NATO tanker alliance. Czech also in this group and also have F-35A on the way.

[Thunder]

Yes, aware of the NATO tanker fleet but is there any reason that we couldn’t sign up to it or does the UK Airtanker contract forbid it? The NATO tanker fleet which I think is going to be 13 aircraft, doesn’t seem that large when you consider all the countries that will be vying for their use. I imagine you can add Belgium, Greece, Denmark,Romania and probably Portugal to the countries you’ve listed.

[STN RAMP RAT]

Air Tanker have an exclusive agreement with the MOD until, I believe, 2035 by which time I understand the aircraft will be reaching their fatigue limits.

[Agent K]

Surely stand off weapons are better than free fall so the jets don’t actually have to overfly heavily defended targets?

What the UK needs most in my opinion is thousands of armed drones and ground based anti drone and anti missile defences.

Possibly at least two or three more squadrons of ‘off the shelf’ interceptors (F-15Cs?) to take out any potential Russian bombers. Though if it’s got to that stage God help us all.

We also need more warships. But that will take about a decade!

However none of that is much use without a successful recruitment campaign and better Forces’ housing and pay. Will any of that be forthcoming?

The requirement is for tactical. not strategic nuclear weapons, hence free fall.

The F-15C has not been produced for many decades, there is no off the shelf option and any additional air superiority fighters would be Typhoon which is as capable and the same fleet with all the benefits that brings, moving to Tempest in the future.

[RubyRoo]

If they are adamant about going down the tactical nuclear weapon route (doesn't make sense to me), then F-35A really is the only option*. I don't think Typhoon has been cleared on it nor F-35B.

*unless they are about to develop a brand new tactical free fall weapon.

I hope that this F-35A announcement (if confirmed) isn't at the expense of more F-35Bs. There should still be a Tranche 2 order for F-35B and then all the B's should be transferred to the FAA. All the new F-35As should obviously be purely for RAF service.

Other RAF things I want mentioned:
- Boom equipped Voyagers
- 2 more Wedgetails
- 8 more A400M to replace the Herc fleet.

[Malcolm]

I don't see what an RAF F-35A+B61 capability adds to NATO. Belgium, The Netherlands, Germany, Italy and the US already have that capability within Europe, with Poland likely to be added in the not too distant future. I do not believe the US would sell us B61's outright - they would be under the same NATO nuclear sharing deal as all the other countries. They would not be a sovereign capability - requiring NATO and US approval for the weapons to be released to the host country for delivery.

What I could support would be an air launched nuclear cruise missile capability similar to/based on Storm Shadow. Would need mods to Typhoon software (which means getting the Germans involved) but it would add to NATO capabilities, would be sovereign, doesn't need mods to Voyager, no additional types to service, and minimal changes to the infrastructure. The French may also be interested since SCALP is similar for Storm Shadow, and they already have a nuclear air delivery platform. And we might even get to blow up bits of Australia again during testing :-)

[TonyO]

If you fancy a long read this evening, the full SDR document is here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... abroad.pdf

[Finty]

If you fancy a long read this evening, the full SDR document is here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... abroad.pdf

Ah good, cheers!

[Snoop 95]

These are the Recommendations:
Recommendations for the RAF:
46. The RAF must stay at the leading edge of combat air’s evolution, through the
transition from exclusively crewed combat air platforms to a Future Combat Air
System (FCAS) with a mix of crewed, uncrewed, and increasingly autonomous
platforms, integrated into the UK’s digital targeting web:
•
To assure the future of UK combat air, investment in autonomous collaborative
platforms (ACPs) should be considered alongside investment in FCAS and
the Global Combat Air Programme. The ACPs must be designed to operate in
collaboration with the fourth-, fifth- and future generations of combat aircraft and
to operate from the UK aircraft carriers.
•
More F-35s will be required over the next decade. This could comprise a
mix of F-35A and B models according to military requirements to provide
greater value for money.
47. The RAF must further enhance its agility and adaptability to build greater
warfighting readiness by:
•
Maintaining E-7 Wedgetail airborne early warning and control aircraft. Further E-7
should be procured when funding allows (taking account of infrastructure
and operating costs). This may be expedited by a cost‑sharing arrangement
with NATO Allies.
•
Exploring providing Protector with a maritime surveillance capability, integrated with
P-8 Poseidon maritime control and reconnaissance aircraft and Type 26 frigates.
•
Initiating investment in improving the foundations of the UK’s Integrated Air and
Missile Defence capabilities to bolster home defence.
•
Augmenting the existing fleet of A400M with either more A400M, civilian
charter, and/or sponsored service options, reducing routine demand on RAF
air transport that does not require military capability.
48. The RAF must drive greater productivity to enhance its resilience:
•
RAF Brize Norton should be a high priority for investment and improvement
in partnership with private finance, as part of a new partnership with industry
(Chapters 4.2 and 7.11). Given it is not affordable to establish a military
alternative to Brize Norton should it be unavailable for operations, alternative
commercial facilities must be planned and, if necessary, legislated for under the
new Defence Readiness Bill (Chapter 6).
•
Hawk T187
87 The aircraft flown by the Red Arrows aerobatic display team.
and Hawk T2 should be replaced with a cost‑effective fast jet trainer.
The current flying training arrangements for fast jets must be urgently revised
to optimise capacity, building in maximum use of contractors and provision for
training overseas students.
•
A review of storage and other standards is required to remove regulations that
place unnecessary constraints on training and impose significant unnecessary
cost in the lifecycle of highly expensive weapons. This review should b

[Cyberfox]

Very slow progress in purchase of F-35s then. I was hoping they could order some as quickly as Thatcher got the F-4Js; a reopening of Honington with a couple of new squadrons of F-35As perhaps. But no. Not even an order for more P-8s.

Any chance of a few hundred thousand drones like the ones Ukraine recently used to destroy those Bears? Or better still, swarm upon swarm of air defence drones based around the coast and key points to destroy any incoming jets and missiles?

[TonyO]

Very slow progress in purchase of F-35s then. I was hoping they could order some as quickly as Thatcher got the F-4Js; a reopening of Honington with a couple of new squadrons of F-35As perhaps. But no. Not even an order for more P-8s.

Any chance of a few hundred thousand drones like the ones Ukraine recently used to destroy those Bears? Or better still, swarm upon swarm of air defence drones based around the coast and key points to destroy any incoming jets and missiles?

I think some wishful thinking there given the state of the economy, but I suspect the thousands of drones will be part of the wider plan, along with the 7,000 long-range missiles that were announced late last week.

[Reach1985]

In short it doesn’t really say anything does it? At least nothing that even the most casual observer of military aviation matters couldn’t have scribbled on the back of a fag packet.

Cleary a lot of it is going to come through some dodgy AirTanker like JVs (additional transports, Brize investment, training etc.) so the country will be ripped off left right & centre & tied into lengthy contracts that don’t deliver what we need like the boom our tankers require so we can actually air refuel our own aircraft & not have to rely on the good ol U S of A who could quite easily turn round tomorrow & send their whole tanker fleet back stateside.

Also you have to laugh when someone has thought that the Red Arrows warrants a mention - if anything could be cut from the RAF budget tomorrow it should be this load of old rubbish. But somehow a replacement for this is a priority in the SDR?!

[Blackcat1]

I wouldn't say they're rubbish ! Then again there's **** all to be proud about in the UK these days

[C24]

FYI

This may be of interest

https://www.forcesnews.com/?utm_source= ... -441270116

[Agent K]

Very slow progress in purchase of F-35s then. I was hoping they could order some as quickly as Thatcher got the F-4Js; a reopening of Honington with a couple of new squadrons of F-35As perhaps. But no. Not even an order for more P-8s.

"Slight" difference in that the F-4J's were readily available as ex US-Navy jets, not new build as any F-35's would be.

[Malcy]

Looks like Chancellor of the Exchequer Rachel Reeves is gonna be the winner of a ‘blankety blank’ cheque book and pen.

I remember George Osborne standing up at his ?first budget? and saying “we are the builders”.

Then we had a load of talk and no action.

Fingers and toes crossed for our brave public sector workers and armed service personnel. We need re-building - will anyone have the guts to tell us we are paying for it though wholesale reform of the UK tax system?

[Malcy]

I wouldn't say they're rubbish ! Then again there's **** all to be proud about in the UK these days

I wouldnt agree at all… its all looking peachy up in Lossie these days and the golf course has never looked better.

I really didnt expect such pessimism from a former ‘tin opener’!

Come on chap - chin up, stiff upper lip - show the goons how it all works here in our United Kingdom.

[Blackcat1]

I wouldn't say they're rubbish ! Then again there's **** all to be proud about in the UK these days

I wouldnt agree at all… its all looking peachy up in Lossie these days and the golf course has never looked better.

I really didnt expect such pessimism from a former ‘tin opener’!

Come on chap - chin up, stiff upper lip - show the goons how it all works here in our United Kingdom.

I'm not ex RAF, just a Jaguar & 6 Squadron fan

[Malcy]

I'm not ex RAF, just a Jaguar & 6 Squadron fan

My apologies …with all that latin - I came to the wrong conclusion.

Having witnessed the first Jag parachute open at Lossie - I’m maybe the same kind of fanatic.

[Blackcat1]

I'm not ex RAF, just a Jaguar & 6 Squadron fan

My apologies …with all that latin - I came to the wrong conclusion.

No worries, I wish i was an ex Jaguar pilot