Potential RAF Typhoon Tranche 4 Order - 25 Aircraft

[RubyRoo]

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britain ... hoon-jets/

From the UKDJ so take it with a pinch of salt, and it is a rumour.

This would be an entirely sensible buy. The RAF are losing Tranche 1 imminently and all the other major programme partners are ordering more aircraft, as well as some of our primary Typhoon export partners.

This would also keep BAE busy and happy at Warton.

25 Typhoons alongside confirmation of the 27 Tranche 2 F-35B order would be a good result for the RAF, assuming there are no other major cuts!

[Finty]

I’d be somewhat surprised if it gets the go ahead, but I hope it does! Current OOS date is 2040 I think for our existing Typhoons of tranche 2/3 but that could slip?

[f-4]

With just 108 jets supporting seven front-line squadrons, the Falklands, an OCU and OEU, something will have to give in the not too distant future. Either squadron disbandments or more F-35s. Tranche 4 is the obvious filler decision if the UK is serious about defence.

[Vulcanone]

f-4 I second your comments.

I suspect the Tranche 2 and 3s could be stretched out past 2040 with further updates, Although I think its only the Tranche 3s now getting the new radar?.

Qatar has stated 2046 for its Typhoons.

[TonyO]

Unless something dramatic happens like finding £100 billion down the back of the sofa, another UK buy of Typhoons isn't happening. This is an idea of unions at Warton who think they will be out of work when final assembly of Qatari jets ends, but the reality is that Typhoon production is now at full steam ahead, we just aren't performing final assembly of any here post Qatar, but we are building components for the new aircraft ordered by Germany, Italy and Spain. Then there is the prospect of possible orders from Turkey Qatar (new batch), and Saudi Arabia (new batch), which would be likely built here, or at least partially.

UK MoD has stated it will purchase more F-35s instead taking our fleet to around 74, but the second tranche has not been ordered yet, this is how the UK fighter force will be grown.

The UKDJ is a pitiful news website reporting things largely without context. I'd highly recommend seeking out a subscription to a proper aerospace/defence news website such as Aviation Week, FlightGlobal, etc.

[jetranger2015]

Unless something dramatic happens like finding £100 billion down the back of the sofa, another UK buy of Typhoons isn't happening. This is an idea of unions at Warton who think they will be out of work when final assembly of Qatari jets ends, but the reality is that Typhoon production is now at full steam ahead, we just aren't performing final assembly of any here post Qatar, but we are building components for the new aircraft ordered by Germany, Italy and Spain. Then there is the prospect of possible orders from Turkey Qatar (new batch), and Saudi Arabia (new batch), which would be likely built here, or at least partially.

Agreed, we are building parts for orders already placed by other nations, but begs the question why have they if the platform is so out of date according to some, bet they said the same about the F16!

UK MoD has stated it will purchase more F-35s instead taking our fleet to around 74, but the second tranche has not been ordered yet, this is how the UK fighter force will be grown.

The key here is NOT ORDERED YET! and 74 total is hardly the 148 or so we were going to order initially. F35 may be more advanced, but not as far advanced as the unit cost and running cost. Numbers matter.

The UKDJ is a pitiful news website reporting things largely without context. I'd highly recommend seeking out a subscription to a proper aerospace/defence news website such as Aviation Week, FlightGlobal, etc.

Everyone has there own opinion, much of what is reported on here is the same.

[Nighthawke]

Usually because it is regurgitated from those untrustworthy sources.

[warthog81]

Wish we did buy more Typhoons and put them somewhere like Leeming to give us a third Typhoon wing.

[andrewn]

Unless something dramatic happens like finding £100 billion down the back of the sofa, another UK buy of Typhoons isn't happening. This is an idea of unions at Warton who think they will be out of work when final assembly of Qatari jets ends, but the reality is that Typhoon production is now at full steam ahead, we just aren't performing final assembly of any here post Qatar, but we are building components for the new aircraft ordered by Germany, Italy and Spain. Then there is the prospect of possible orders from Turkey Qatar (new batch), and Saudi Arabia (new batch), which would be likely built here, or at least partially.

UK MoD has stated it will purchase more F-35s instead taking our fleet to around 74, but the second tranche has not been ordered yet, this is how the UK fighter force will be grown.

The UKDJ is a pitiful news website reporting things largely without context. I'd highly recommend seeking out a subscription to a proper aerospace/defence news website such as Aviation Week, FlightGlobal, etc.

Tony, with respect, you do your own journalistic sources no credit by saying we need a £100 billion to procure a couple of dozen Typhoon's, when the actual cost is likely nearer £3 billion.

Procuring a new batch of Typhoon's is the obvious answer in so many ways, it's proven and in service with all the support and infrastructure in place, it can be fielded relatively quickly, it's basically a sovereign capability with a wide variety of cleared weapons, it contributes directly to the local (North West) and wider UK economy, keeps significant skilled people in work and protects against skills fade if/when GCAP becomes a reality. The only real question is why we haven't already purchased a new batch or two...

Personally I've got my fingers crossed this is one of those rumours that has more than a grain of truth to it.

[Doughnut]

The first Tranche 2 Typhoons were delivered in 2008. So assuming the UK Government does order Tranche 4 it is unlikely they will be delivered within the next three years meaning the Tranche 2 aircraft will be twenty years old.
Unless any major upgrades have been approved for the Tranche 2 they will most likely be retired.

[andrewn]

Wish we did buy more Typhoons and put them somewhere like Leeming to give us a third Typhoon wing.

Going back many many years I believe that was the intent, but the peace dividend put paid to that plan. It's actually even more relevant today, since the move of the Leuchars wing to Lossie basing a couple of squadrons at Leeming would fill a nice hole geographically. Sadly, I expect this idea has as much chance of being resurrected as the Binbrook Lightning wing has

[warthog81]

Yes I think the cold war plan was for five Typhoon bases, then during the 1990s it was three made up of Coningsby Leeming and Leuchars. Eventually the Typhoons being moved from Leuchars to Lossiemouth. With the current tensions in the world it feels like a third base would be useful. It does not seem so long ago when the RAF had 3x Tornado F-3 wings just for air defence at Coningsby, Leeming and Leuchars, 2x Tornado GR4 wings at Marham and Lossiemouth, 1x Harrier wing at Cottesmore along with the OCU at Wittering, 1x Jaguar wing at Coltishall and I should not forget the Royal Navy Sea Harriers at Yeovilton.

[TonyO]

Unless something dramatic happens like finding £100 billion down the back of the sofa, another UK buy of Typhoons isn't happening. This is an idea of unions at Warton who think they will be out of work when final assembly of Qatari jets ends, but the reality is that Typhoon production is now at full steam ahead, we just aren't performing final assembly of any here post Qatar, but we are building components for the new aircraft ordered by Germany, Italy and Spain. Then there is the prospect of possible orders from Turkey Qatar (new batch), and Saudi Arabia (new batch), which would be likely built here, or at least partially.

UK MoD has stated it will purchase more F-35s instead taking our fleet to around 74, but the second tranche has not been ordered yet, this is how the UK fighter force will be grown.

The UKDJ is a pitiful news website reporting things largely without context. I'd highly recommend seeking out a subscription to a proper aerospace/defence news website such as Aviation Week, FlightGlobal, etc.

Tony, with respect, you do your own journalistic sources no credit by saying we need a £100 billion to procure a couple of dozen Typhoon's, when the actual cost is likely nearer £3 billion.

Procuring a new batch of Typhoon's is the obvious answer in so many ways, it's proven and in service with all the support and infrastructure in place, it can be fielded relatively quickly, it's basically a sovereign capability with a wide variety of cleared weapons, it contributes directly to the local (North West) and wider UK economy, keeps significant skilled people in work and protects against skills fade if/when GCAP becomes a reality. The only real question is why we haven't already purchased a new batch or two...

Personally I've got my fingers crossed this is one of those rumours that has more than a grain of truth to it.

I never said we need £100 billion to buy the Typhoons, I am suggesting that if the government finds another £100 billion to fill its coffers, then we might have a chance to get some new Typhoons. Remember, defence spending is never the priority of any government, even though it arguably should be. As already said, the government and BAE are banking on another round of export orders to maintain the final assembly skills and to fill the gap between UK Typhoon and UK GCAP.

[Unknown74]

My model Typhoons are Tranche D... (I made them all)..

[Philly1971]

Sadly, with the cost of government borrowing jumping in the last few months, it’s more likely that massive spending cuts will need to be announced by the government, assuming they want sterling to be worth more than a Zimbabwe dollar in a years time. Based on the fact we have children still sitting in unsafe schools, terrible roads, and people waiting 24 hours for A&E, it’s much more likely we will have less for defence going forward not more. To announce a purchase of more fighter jets now would be terrible for the government, they would be ripped to shreds.

[Bluetail]

Didnt I read somewhere that a buy of T4 Typhoons will not be required by the RAF because the new ECRS Radar currently being trialled will give the current fleet once updated much better opertational capabilities than the Tranche 4.

[Vulcanone]

Didnt I read somewhere that a buy of T4 Typhoons will not be required by the RAF because the new ECRS Radar currently being trialled will give the current fleet once updated much better opertational capabilities than the Tranche 4.

Possibly, although I don't know where it appeared. And as far as I recall only the Tranche 3s are to get the new radar?

A batch of Tranche 4s would certainly keep Warton busy (If) it happens. As the 12 extra for Qatar and other potential orders may not keep them going till Tempest ramps up. Speaking of which, do we have a first flight date for the Technology Demonstrator they are building for that? I read something suggesting 2027...

[TonyO]

The ECRS Mk.2 radar chosen by the UK, should theoretically be better than the Mk.1 version being developed by Germany and Spain for their aircraft. But ECRS Mk.2 is currently only slated for UK Tranche 3 jets, so about 40 of the aircraft.

[Vulcanone]

The ECRS Mk.2 radar chosen by the UK, should theoretically be better than the Mk.1 version being developed by Germany and Spain for their aircraft. But ECRS Mk.2 is currently only slated for UK Tranche 3 jets, so about 40 of the aircraft.

That is exactly what I remember reading was happening Tony

[f-4]

It's a well worn argument to justify buying smaller, more expensive fleets that modern jets have the capability of five older ones. However it can still only be in one place at any one time and if it breaks five jets are grounded!