UK to scrap some warships, helicopters and drones

[James Cutting]

The UK will scrap five warships, dozens of military helicopters and a fleet of drones to save money despite growing threats from Russia and a war raging in Europe.

John Healey, the defence secretary, announced the dramatic move in parliament on Wednesday, saying it would save up to half a billion pounds over the next five years.

The defence secretary described the equipment being axed as "outdated" and said the "common sense" decision to retire them was long overdue.

He signalled the decision was part of a plan to restructure and modernise the armed forces, which have already been significantly reduced in size following decades of cost-saving cuts, with new capabilities due to come online to replace the gaps.

• The Royal Navy's two amphibious assault ships, HMS Albion and HMS Bulwark. They will be taken out of service at the end of the year - around a decade early in a blow to the ability of the Royal Marines to launch land assaults from the sea.

• A fleet of 17 Royal Air Force Puma helicopters, as well as 14 of the military's oldest Chinook helicopters

• A fleet of 47 Watchkeeper drones - each worth about £5m - barely six years since they entered into service

• HMS Northumberland, a Type 23 frigate, which is in need of costly repairs and has already operated well beyond an 18-year out-of-service date

• Two large Royal Fleet Auxiliary ships, RFA Wave Knight and RFA Wave Ruler - vessels which carry fuel and supplies to enable the Royal Navy's aircraft carriers to operate around the world.

https://news.sky.com/story/uk-to-scrap- ... d-13257285

[NorvilleRogers]

The older Chinooks retirement has been planned for ages, there are currently 14 new build ones on order to replace them. Not sure where the Puma replacement is upto, I think that has been delayed.

[Thunder]

……and so it begins….

[PR9]

……and so it begins….

or rather "continues".

[cat1]

Clown show.

Oh and 'delayed' usually turns into cancellations

[EGDR]

Expecting a lot of outrage over this here but don't really understand why. Chinooks are expected, as are Pumas. Watchkeeper has long had its issues, though sad to see it go just as it starts being semi-reliable. The Albion class and Wave class have not been to sea in a long time, and HMS Northumberland was never going to see operations again. If those are the costs for keeping current procurement programs ongoing, so be it.

[IMarsh]

According to be BBC report the Pumas are being replaced by Airbus H145 helicopters, i.e Jupiters, which the last time I looked at both doesn't seem to be a like for like replacement in terms of capability.

As for the Albion and Wave classes, I'm struggling to understand the logic there.

[Leuchars Fan]

Expecting a lot of outrage over this here but don't really understand why. Chinooks are expected, as are Pumas. Watchkeeper has long had its issues, though sad to see it go just as it starts being semi-reliable. The Albion class and Wave class have not been to sea in a long time, and HMS Northumberland was never going to see operations again. If those are the costs for keeping current procurement programs ongoing, so be it.

I recall not long before the General Election, John Healey declared, Labour is now the party of Defence. Is this simply a counter-intuitive manoeuvre? Or is he a lying so and so just like the rest of this very left leaning Socialist Ideological movement now ruining the country? Sorry to sound so pejorative, but a day hasn't passed without some example of how specious this shower are.

LF

[NorvilleRogers]

According to be BBC report the Pumas are being replaced by Airbus H145 helicopters, i.e Jupiters, which the last time I looked at both doesn't seem to be a like for like replacement in terms of capability.

As for the Albion and Wave classes, I'm struggling to understand the logic there.

Albion and Bulwark are already out of service and in store at Devonport in a state that can be returned to service if required.

[Vulcanone]

Perhaps its about time folks should remember, that it was Labour that was in power when all 3 Tranche contracts for the RAF Typhoons were signed. Not that it helps right now. Chinook and Puma were already a given, and 6 Chinook have already gone anyway. A bunch of the Pumas are already at Shawbury already.

Getting rid of Old kit for new

[Wyvern]

If you want more aircraft/ships etc then you have to pay more tax...imagine how popular that would be bearing in mind the headlines about the NI increases and changes in the IHT liability for farms.

[Philwinward]

I agree with the comments re.Puma replacement by Airbus H145. Seems a backward step in capability/troop capacity.
However could they be tagged onto the German order to save money ?
We’ll just have to wait and see.

[EGDR]

According to be BBC report the Pumas are being replaced by Airbus H145 helicopters, i.e Jupiters, which the last time I looked at both doesn't seem to be a like for like replacement in terms of capability.

As for the Albion and Wave classes, I'm struggling to understand the logic there.

The H145s are replacing the Pumas only in the Cyprus SAR and firefighting role and in Brunei.

Neither the Albion or Wave class have been at sea for a long time.

[EGDR]

Expecting a lot of outrage over this here but don't really understand why. Chinooks are expected, as are Pumas. Watchkeeper has long had its issues, though sad to see it go just as it starts being semi-reliable. The Albion class and Wave class have not been to sea in a long time, and HMS Northumberland was never going to see operations again. If those are the costs for keeping current procurement programs ongoing, so be it.

I recall not long before the General Election, John Healey declared, Labour is now the party of Defence. Is this simply a counter-intuitive manoeuvre? Or is he a lying so and so just like the rest of this very left leaning Socialist Ideological movement now ruining the country? Sorry to sound so pejorative, but a day hasn't passed without some example of how specious this shower are.

LF

It's not counter-intuitive if you realise keeping things in service for the sake of raw numbers or good headlines only doesn't actually help our defence capability. The retirement of the Albions was even suggested by the MoD before the pandemic but vetoed by the government. John Healey's spent the last decade hammering previous administrations with written questions and reports over their mishandling of the MoD, so he's earned some good grace. As for odd mumblings about socialism and the like, perhaps try the general chat forum.

Before you ask or insinuate it, I'm not a Labour member, supporter or voter.

[TonyO]

Pumas are more than 50 years old, and frankly not the safest of things to put troops in, the 14 Chinooks will be the amongst the oldest in service and shaking themselves apart and the Watchkeepers have had little to no impact on the British Army and seemed to like crashing into the sea. I have no idea about the ships, but sounds like they were rotting in port. We are better off without a lot of this gear, and if it saves some cash for the next procurement, then why keep them?

Defence is expensive, and the British people chose (stupidly) in 2016 to make themselves poorer, expect some tough decisions in the coming years.

[XWP29]

If you want more aircraft/ships etc then you have to pay more tax...imagine how popular that would be bearing in mind the headlines about the NI increases and changes in the IHT liability for farms.

Taxes need spending wisely and we waste billions.
The Farm tax raid on ordinary farmers is appalling and nothing at all to do with this.

[Nighthawke]

I'm glad there a re a few clear-thinking and sensible people on here. Forget the politics and selfish "I want a huge military" - look at the obvious.

[Ravendriver2008]

The older Chinooks retirement has been planned for ages, there are currently 14 new build ones on order to replace them. Not sure where the Puma replacement is upto, I think that has been delayed.

Puma replacement at Akrotiri and Brunei Garrison has been on the cards for a while as they were temporary replacements for the Bell 412 (84 Sqn) and Bell 212 (AAC) and now be replaced by Airbus Helicopters H145

https://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/pres ... elicopters

cheers

[Ravendriver2008]

I agree with the comments re.Puma replacement by Airbus H145. Seems a backward step in capability/troop capacity.
However could they be tagged onto the German order to save money ?
We’ll just have to wait and see.

Not really, myself been around H145M on/off for the last decade the aircraft is good for what it does, seen it perform winch rescue demo and insertion extraction of Special tactical teams etc, it has a neat avionics system, Helionix, it can comfortably carry handful of troops and its cost effective in terms of supporting both garrisons - you dont need front line a/c in both places tbh. Also very good in hot and high conditions.

Case in point under the old COMR contract (initially with FB Heliservices then acauired by Cobham and Cobham acquired by Draken International) it was Bell 412 for SAR and some troop support re 84 Sqn and H145 is good for winching, SAR and EMS /Medevac if needed. Then Bell 212 under same contract in Brunei supporting troops

Also 202 Sqn (Ascent Flying Training) at Valley does SAR winching training / WSO crewman training so natural progression.

Also Cypriot National Guard equipping with the H145M armed with Airbus HForce all weapons management system replacing their mI24 Hind also Brunei getting some H145M too.

cheers

[Bucky P]

Perhaps its about time folks should remember, that it was Labour that was in power when all 3 Tranche contracts for the RAF Typhoons were signed. Not that it helps right now. Chinook and Puma were already a given, and 6 Chinook have already gone anyway. A bunch of the Pumas are already at Shawbury already.

Getting rid of Old kit for new

Don't forget, it was the Tories who scrapped Harrier, Nimrod, Jaguar, Sentry and Sentinel, leaving us with huge capability gaps!