14 Squadron Crusaders

[Agent K]

I have to admit I find it strange clutching to a somewhat false image of crusaders (where in reality, especially The Knights Templar, were jihadists of their day, the middle ages, were hated by the masses, were mainly french and French speaking, and were far from patriots) when there are far more accomplished and patriotic people to celebrate.

I'd also question some peoples passion in preserving a squadron name, when I don't recall anything but silence at other recent actual squadron losses, 100 squadron being a recent example. I wonder why?

[Finty]

I have to admit I find it strange clutching to a somewhat false image of crusaders (where in reality, especially The Knights Templar, were jihadists of their day, the middle ages, were hated by the masses, were mainly french and French speaking, and were far from patriots) when there are far more accomplished and patriotic people to celebrate.

I'd also question some peoples passion in preserving a squadron name, when I don't recall anything but silence at other recent actual squadron losses, 100 squadron being a recent example. I wonder why?

Perhaps it’s more the principle of old names and the esprit de corps being binned due to a single complaint as opposed to any real attachment to the origin or context of the name.

What’s 100 sqn got to do with this? It didn’t have its name removed due to a complaint, it was disbanded due to I presume budget cuts and/ or outdated equipment which is altogether a different issue and one that has generated its own reaction. Has the negative reaction to the loss of the RAF’s ‘combat mass’ not been noticed by you because it sure as hell happened.

[roughcutter]

Sounds like the guy is on a 'moral crusade!'
I'll get me coat....

[Malcy]

The Genoa Cross is safe from Daily Express hysterics.

Those who wish to re-write history need to look at our culture (whether it be what has been written about successes or failures, or other propaganda) with a detachment from their own insecure bedwetting wokery or apparent shock & upset caused by our nostalgia or faith.

Heres little ditty to enjoy …

“The word “Crusade” came into use late, long after medieval Christian holy wars began. The Latin word crucesignatus, or “one marked by the cross,” first appeared in the early 1200s, more than a century after Urban II’s call to action in 1095. In English, “Crusade” and “Crusader” don’t appear until around 1700; by the 1800s, the term—defined broadly as a military campaign in defense of one’s faith—had become a convenient way for Victorian historians to mark the past as a battle between what they saw as good and evil, represented respectively by Christianity and Islam. These claims worked especially well as supposed historical justification for contemporary European colonialism, which used rhetoric like “The White Man’s Burden” to paint land grabs as civilizing crusades against “uncivilized” non-Westerners.
Today, the terms “Crusader” and “Crusade” latch onto a nostalgic vision of the past, one that suggests there was a millennia-long clash of civilizations between Islam and Christianity (or “the West”). This is what we have elsewhere called a “rainbow connection”—an attempt to leap over intervening history back to the Middle Ages. But as we argue in our new history of medieval Europe, The Bright Ages, the Crusades weren’t waged solely against Muslims. More importantly, the Crusades ended, ushering in a period of independence and interdependence between Europe and the Middle East. To use the term “Crusader” uncritically for an archaeological discovery in the Middle East is to suggest that the Crusades were the most important thing that happened in the region during the medieval era. That’s just not that case.”

extract from -

The Many Myths of the Term ‘Crusader’
Conceptions of the medieval Crusades tend to lump disparate movements together, ignoring the complexity and diversity of these military campaigns
David M. Perry and Matthew Gabriele
November 23, 2021


https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... 0in%201095.

[slogen51]

Keep it on military aviation please else we are heading to the general chat section

Thanks

Royal Airforce Squadrons stand down and stand up again at regular intervals it happens but having to change the unit nickname for political reasons is a sign of the times

[Finty]

Keep it on military aviation please else we are heading to the general chat section

Thanks

Royal Airforce Squadrons stand down and stand up again at regular intervals it happens but having to change the unit nickname for political reasons is a sign of the times

His post is relevant as it delves into the origins of the term ‘crusader’.

Your second point however, I agree with. A succinct version of my earlier post.

[Northsky]

Apparently the heads are looking at other units ? Dambusters next ?

[Blackcat1]

I guess the callsign Blackcat will be offensive eventually

[Philly1971]

The phrase “Just because you complain,doesn’t make you right” springs to mind. If organisations are going to accept complaints, then they need to also accept official notices of support, which could balance, or cancel out complaints. Then, and only then, if complaints far exceed support, perhaps you then look at whether a change is required.

[Finty]

I guess the callsign Blackcat will be offensive eventually

Apparently the heads are looking at other units ? Dambusters next ?

Let’s not take the p*ss and go OTT, why would anyone complain about either of those?

[Blackcat1]

I guess the callsign Blackcat will be offensive eventually

Apparently the heads are looking at other units ? Dambusters next ?

Everything’s OTT these days

Let’s not take the p*ss and go OTT, why would anyone complain about either of those?

[Finty]

Neither name is related to the race, religion or gender of humans, or anything else people could cry over in any circumstance. Things aren’t that bad yet.

[Wyvern]

I presume the name "Crusaders" came from 14 Sqn's long service in the Middle East in both World Wars. The squadron badge has a red cross on a white background which is supposed to a Crusader symbol.
Post WW2 the RAF addressed the issue as of those squadrons which had official or unofficial names e.g. 44 Rhodesia Sqn. So in 1952 the practice of naming was ended bar the R Aux AF Squadrons. . Thereafter all names were to be deleted from unit titles and badges.

[Doughnut]

Squadron history is available here.
www.14sqn-association.org.uk/14_Squadro ... story.html

[Enobob]

Haven't heard the nickname used in years!

[22A]

1980 there was a large NATO exercise named Crusader. The Turks complained, so four years later in 84, we had Lionheart. The penny never dropped concerning where & how King Richard gained that title.

[effects]

I have to admit I find it strange clutching to a somewhat false image of crusaders (where in reality, especially The Knights Templar, were jihadists of their day, the middle ages, were hated by the masses, were mainly french and French speaking, and were far from patriots) when there are far more accomplished and patriotic people to celebrate.

I'd also question some peoples passion in preserving a squadron name, when I don't recall anything but silence at other recent actual squadron losses, 100 squadron being a recent example. I wonder why?

Tatty ton

[C24]

As I posted earlier today,
Chance Vought Crusader
carrier-based air superiority jet aircraft designed and produced by the American aircraft manufacturer Vought. It was the last American fighter that had guns as the primary weapon, earning it the title "The Last of the Gunfighters". Wikipedia
Top speed: 1,975 km/h
Engine type: Pratt & Whitney J57
Introduced: March 1957
First flight: 25 March 1955
Manufacturer: Vought
Range: 1,609 km

I’ll screenshot this post to prove to myself that I did indeed make a post. Unlike the one earlier.

[Alf]

As I posted earlier today,
Chance Vought Crusader
carrier-based air superiority jet aircraft designed and produced by the American aircraft manufacturer Vought. It was the last American fighter that had guns as the primary weapon, earning it the title "The Last of the Gunfighters". Wikipedia
Top speed: 1,975 km/h
Engine type: Pratt & Whitney J57
Introduced: March 1957
First flight: 25 March 1955
Manufacturer: Vought
Range: 1,609 km

I’ll screenshot this post to prove to myself that I did indeed make a post. Unlike the one earlier.

The F-8 has already been commented on, about 10th post in on this thread....

[C24]

Alf
I looked but could not see the post to which you referred in the post above
Perhaps the “Crusader S “ you mean is the name of the US Navy Sqdn? In the 17-19th post. No mention found by me of the F-8 in this thread.
Please clarify