Park and View never again

[CHESTER_DRAWERS]

Slogan hit the nail on the head, I also wish the hardcore snappers would be more community minded. If I was close by to somebody older or in the case of the chap above in a wheelchair I would go out of my way to assist them with a better view, but it seems I'm in the minority these days.

[STN RAMP RAT]

I was at PV East and was one of the last to arrive at 9AM, due to a crash on the M25 adding 90 minutes to the journey time. The car park was about 2/3 full and there were parking marshalls on site, overall I thought the organisation was superb. I paid on the gate and got the hand stamp, I went to security in the same tent and was behind a person with a few camera bags and a family with a pram. I only had a foldable camp chair and the secuirty team just waved me round these two and straight in without even checking the chair. After that is was straight to the RIAT stall and for £2 I was able to buy the program with the timings for the day which were mostly correct. I am not a photographer and only take the numbers on tankers and transports so was just there for my annual fast jet fill. I cant think of anywhere else where you could get so close to such a variety of taxing aircraft in the UK. There was food and drink available at what I thought was a reasonable price, £3 for a coffee and £6 for a sausage and bacon sandwich although I think he might have mischarged me on the latter as it said £10 on the board.

Clearly there were photographers next to the fence line but I sat some way back to get a better view so can't comment on how they were behaved, although I had no issues when I went to take a few photos of the Turkish F4's at the far end of the enclosure about midday with my iPhone. I also cant believe how incredibly close to the enclosure they were parked after being towed over. Overall a great day out, as to the value at £30, It is what it is, but I spent more on fuel to get there and back.

[HawkeyeUK]

For what it's worth I turned up at P&V East on both Wednesday and Thursday at around 8.15am. I paid my £30 each day, walked in with no queue whatsoever and headed round to the designated ladder area nearer the road (I didn't have a ladder btw). I stood near the back and found that nobody was in my way and that I wasn't in anyone else's way. There was no hassle and I got a completely acceptable and useable shot of everything that landed. The thing to bare in mind is that the aircraft are quite high as they go over the boundary fence, so by standing back you can shoot them well over the heads of those at the front (plus you're panning very slightly slower, which also helps a little). All you get in the background are sky and tree tops, no building works, police cars, other aircraft etc. I suspect some of the helicopters (Mil-8, RN Merlin etc) may have been too high from the front anyway.
True you don't get any taxying shots, but I was very happy with what I got each day and I do take my photography seriously.

So sometimes the relaxed approach works, and can lead to a much more enjoyable day overall. Well, it worked for me!

Cheers
Alan

[skippyscage]

Slogan hit the nail on the head, I also wish the hardcore snappers would be more community minded. If I was close by to somebody older or in the case of the chap above in a wheelchair I would go out of my way to assist them with a better view, but it seems I'm in the minority these days.

the simple thing to do would be to stand behind the wheelchair - everyone wins

[408thunderer]

Park and View west was not too bad on Monday. we got there at 0735 and there was a big queue already but we got in just before the Jordanian F16s taxied out and got a nice spot just behind the front row at the fence. What I did notice was how many pay on the days there were compared to advance ticket holders, they came down and split the queue and it seemed most people stayed in the pay on the day queue. Id always got a ticket in advance until this year when they sold out unbeliavably early. If they are just going to let everybody in anyway whats the point of selling out advanced tickets unless its a ruse to make more money by charging more for pay on the day. I didnt think much of the food options at West though, fed back through the survey

[LTFT5]

Spoke to a work colleague today who attended P&V East on the Thursday.
Sadly the same story, he got through security checks no problem and then joined the back of the queue waiting to have his ticket scanned. Whilst waiting to enter the P&V numerous people walked past the end of the queue to meet up with their mates in front. Beggars belief, these people are so arrogant.
Will be giving feedback regarding queue marshalling to RIAT.
Wimbledon get it right simply by giving a queue number ticket to every person, simple really and no pushing in.

[sschofield]

I was at PV East and was one of the last to arrive at 9AM, due to a crash on the M25 adding 90 minutes to the journey time. The car park was about 2/3 full and there were parking marshalls on site, overall I thought the organisation was superb. I paid on the gate and got the hand stamp, I went to security in the same tent and was behind a person with a few camera bags and a family with a pram. I only had a foldable camp chair and the secuirty team just waved me round these two and straight in without even checking the chair. After that is was straight to the RIAT stall and for £2 I was able to buy the program with the timings for the day which were mostly correct. I am not a photographer and only take the numbers on tankers and transports so was just there for my annual fast jet fill. I cant think of anywhere else where you could get so close to such a variety of taxing aircraft in the UK. There was food and drink available at what I thought was a reasonable price, £3 for a coffee and £6 for a sausage and bacon sandwich although I think he might have mischarged me on the latter as it said £10 on the board.

Clearly there were photographers next to the fence line but I sat some way back to get a better view so can't comment on how they were behaved, although I had no issues when I went to take a few photos of the Turkish F4's at the far end of the enclosure about midday with my iPhone. I also cant believe how incredibly close to the enclosure they were parked after being towed over. Overall a great day out, as to the value at £30, It is what it is, but I spent more on fuel to get there and back.

I think you (and me!) are classified as one of the "older" contingent these days!

[DILLIGAF1]

So I'm No 1 in the pedestrian queue, the gates open, Walk in everyone stays in line in the same order as they were queueing in. I arrive at the bag search, at this point there are 12 bag check security points. There are now 12 "1st" people in the queues. The bag searches begin, now the time taken to pass through this area will depend on the the amount of gear with me plus the thoroughness of the bag checker. Now a person who was, for arguments sake was 13th in the original queue has no bags, so simply bypasses the bag check. (Why should they wait in the queue? They have no bags) So this person now is the first person to the holding area. But the width of the holding area goes across the width of the road, which could easily hold approx 20 people along the barrier. We now have potentially 20 people who are first in the queue. When the barrier is removed there are 5 ticket checkers, people line up behind the checkers. Some the bar code work and in they go, some don't and are held until until the code works or the checker is told to let them in.

So getting up at 1am and being first in the queue has very little bearing on being first into the show ground, there are too many variables. Also while this is going on the people in cars are parking up and arriving, plus the pedestrian and or vehicle gates maybe delayed opening. Which further dilutes the issue.

So do you hold the vehicles until the pedestrians have entered or vice versa if the gates are not opened on time.

So it's all just c**p, plus the disabled queue which goes in early (and rightly so if you are in a wheelchair/mobility scooter etc) as it allows a safe passage to the disabled enclosure, Except the majority of the people I saw in that queue where not what the definition of disabled (impaired or limited by a physical, mental, cognitive, or developmental condition : affected by disability). Some carrying heavy back packs and large trolleys and no they were not carers!!! This resulted in the majority of the "good" positions were already taken prior to the gates opening!! So a "few" people walking pass the queue to be with their friend or partner etc, really has very little bearing on being first in the queue.

So just go in, enjoy the show and stop moaning.

What is worse is the d******ds who barrier off large areas of the crowd line, saying they were first in the queue or got up at 1am!! To save spaces for their mates who wander in at 8am. If I'm there and their friends who couldn't be bothered to get up early are not. Then sorry, I'm putting my seat down. First come first served. If they are not their they don't get a space, simple. No other event has this.

You don't see people staying in line at silverstone once you have entered the event. That would be crazy.

[steamy]

survival of the fittest and the unpolite.

[LTFT5]

Dilligaf 1 I think you have totally missed the point.
Your statement referencing Silverstone is totally irrelevant as it is taking about after entering the event.
My posts reference queue jumping before finally entering the event I.e. whilst being held after security scans and waiting for entrance to the Park and View.
Also my posts have been about the arrogance of those who feel they have the right to bypass those already queuing.

[Nighthawke]

Far too many people these days have no manners, no respect for others regardless of ability and are just plain selfish. "B***er you Jack, I'm alright" mentality. Yes it's always been there but getting worse. Staffing any public event is a thankless task - I did it for many years with the ATC both boy and man. I always make a point of waving or saying thanks to helpers - it's simply good manners and costs nothing. A few of us are condemning such behaviour but there nust be some of on here who fall into the above group. Anyone prepared to own up to it? I doubt it!

[thevulcan]

It's a difficult issue with no real easy to implement solution. RIAT is the only event this sort of crazy behaviour happens some people on the crowd line this year were near enough ready to throw hands with there shouting and swearing attitude never seen anything like it. I know we are all keen aviation lovers but to threaten people and to try and intimidate and belittle people is way too far especially when all your doing is getting a few snaps of aircraft.

I think the disabled enclosure area in P and V needs to be made bigger as there is a dedicated area for those in the disabled queue to situate themselves. If this area is not going to be used by them then they should be let it at a similar time to those in the normal queue. I personally walk in through the pedestrian queue stay in that queue through the security this year I had no bags so didn't need to wait in the bag queue walked down to the end of the ticket queue and waited for my father to join me who was parking the car. I don't see an issue with that as we are family the people who skip the queue and go my friend of a friends friend is coming now is not on in my opinion. The setting up of chairs where people now reserve an area for there 20 mates turning up at 10am is also not on. First come first serve.

[Nighthawke]

Sorry but it is not new nor unique to RIAT. I witnessed - and received - verbal abuse at Mildenhall in the 1990s. Some of it was directed at cadets as young as 13 years old who were just doing their duty to keep the crowd behind the crowd line. When the adults stepped in they got the same treatment. No control over their kids either and so it breeds generation after generation.

[STN RAMP RAT]

I think you (and me!) are classified as one of the "older" contingent these days!

Regretfully, I suspect you may be right

[RichardFromRotterdam]

At the west P&V is my own experience and my thoughts on queue jumping issues is one solution: make one queue for people with tickets and another for people who still want to purchase one. That should solve some of the complaints.

[Kurnass]

One thing I was quite satisfied with, was the stepladder rules. No stepladders allowed at most part of the fence line, only in a separate area, further away.

[steamy]

If you just sat back and watched the planes, would a lot of these issues be alleviated?

It seems to be people wanting to be in front to get their perfect picture, which will sit un-viewed on a hard drive for years to come, are a lot of the issue.

If you were just to chill out a bit in the background with some food and drinks, taking in the atmosphere, there would be this amount of issues? (entrance queue aside).

[Plane enthuiast]

Got into park and view east after arriving at 4:45am on Wednesday. Small queue no issues. They did lose a key but it happens it was found and we could go move forward passed security with ease and then queued. Unfortunately there was the arrogant queue jumpers. Which did anger some people including me but decided to just ignore it. Bought a ticket on the gate and then entered. Settled in a second row spot and waited for the arrivals to begin.

Unfortunately the group in front of us was well incredibly rude. Every time we tried to get shots of fast jets they’d tell us to foxtrot Oscar wouldn’t let anyone nip in and grab a quick shot of something taxiing across the runway onto foxtrot south or into north. Like it’s one plane and one shot it really doesn’t matter to you all that much just let them get it.

They were also incredibly belittling to the family next to us especially being very misogynistic towards the mum and her very young daughter who was early teens at best and just starting out her aviation photography journey and they just wanted to enjoy a great day out as a family and . Very rude to display acts and cadets and everyone was a bit fed up with them at the end of the day. My friend and I did question their behaviour but soon realised it wasn’t worth it in the end. Other than that great day!! Seeing that much rare aircraft arrive is awesome a true testament to DBH.

[Rob666]

Got into park and view east after arriving at 4:45am on Wednesday. Small queue no issues. They did lose a key but it happens it was found and we could go move forward passed security with ease and then queued. Unfortunately there was the arrogant queue jumpers. Which did anger some people including me but decided to just ignore it. Bought a ticket on the gate and then entered. Settled in a second row spot and waited for the arrivals to begin.

Unfortunately the group in front of us was well incredibly rude. Every time we tried to get shots of fast jets they’d tell us to foxtrot Oscar wouldn’t let anyone nip in and grab a quick shot of something taxiing across the runway onto foxtrot south or into north. Like it’s one plane and one shot it really doesn’t matter to you all that much just let them get it.

They were also incredibly belittling to the family next to us especially being very misogynistic towards the mum and her very young daughter who was early teens at best and just starting out her aviation photography journey and they just wanted to enjoy a great day out as a family and . Very rude to display acts and cadets and everyone was a bit fed up with them at the end of the day. My friend and I did question their behaviour but soon realised it wasn’t worth it in the end. Other than that great day!! Seeing that much rare aircraft arrive is awesome a true testament to DBH.

That is such a shame, should take a picture and post it here. Some real so called Spotters with a darn awful attitude.

[raptor9]

Had a friend in Florida who came over for Fairford and Flying Legends. Spent the first couple of visits taking pictures. I mentioned to him that he wasn't seeing the show. He took my advice, stopped the camera work and loved the flying.!! Horses for courses tho'. I used to do the same thing with video, then realised what I was missing.