Red Arrows in Turmoil ?

[slogen51]

From reading the reports there has been almost 100% change in personnel so I have confidence that there will be changes in culture - a reset.

To hardened plane watchers like us the reds probably do seem routine but that is only because we have seen them too many times. But you only need to see the crowds that go to see them to realize they are a massive attraction and part of the ceremonial fabric of the country. A few years ago they simply positioned to Farnborough for a Flypast somewhere and the amount of interest and family groups turning up to watch was incredible.

I actually quite like watching the reds - particularly that manoeuvre where they corkscrew in turn around the main body of aircraft

[PR9]

Is there any news on the Aeralis Hawk replacement? It's an interesting concept.

[C24]

Page62 of the redacted report states:

RAF Scampton
3.1.25 Whilst there is a good relationship between and the NSI Review
Team considers it unlikely that this is also replicated between Sqn SPs and Unit SPs. There
is a reluctance to approach SHQ staffs about behavioural matters or an understanding,
especially post HROM, of the resource available.
3.1.26 During the referral of matters to the the NSI Review Team noted the lack of
resource available from the HR Centre to support the directed action as well as to support
the PS & SD staffs at Unit level. Whilst this resolved itself, the lack of physical visibility of
Unit P Staffs has the propensity to further discourage dialogue outside of the Sqn. Whilst it is
always optimal to resolve matters at the lowest possible level within LM, sometimes this is
not the right pathway for SPs and it is easier to discuss matters, or seek advice, outside of
the Sqn.

Bearing in mind the historic challenges at RAFAT of matters being kept ‘in house’
and concepts such as the ‘Diamond of Trust’ being articulated, there is a risk of history
repeating itself, particularly following a change of hierarchy and the physical move of the Sqn
to WAD, where it is understood RAFAT will be ‘separated’ from the main operating centre of
the base with potentially its own entry and exit to and from the base due to the high number
of visitors it receives. This paragraph is included as a cautionary note that the current
positive and improving culture is vulnerable to a change in variables.

The last paragraph makes me wonder whether anything will change for the longterm better

At least the move to WAD means a shorter drive for me and it is a pleasant experience watching them training.

[plmc135]

Simples. Scrap the Dead Sparrows, move the RC's to Mildenhall, the Shadows to Barkston Heath and shut Waddungton. Money saved can be used to buy extra two Wedgetails

[NGAutoArt]

From reading the reports there has been almost 100% change in personnel so I have confidence that there will be changes in culture - a reset.

To some hardened plane watchers like us the reds probably do seem routine but that is only because we have seen them too many times. But you only need to see the crowds that go to see them to realize they are a massive attraction and part of the ceremonial fabric of the country. A few years ago they simply positioned to Farnborough for a Flypast somewhere and the amount of interest and family groups turning up to watch was incredible.

I actually quite like watching the reds - particularly that manoeuvre where they corkscrew in turn around the main body of aircraft

I've been watching the Reds for 40 years and am still always impressed with how good they are. Other teams have more exciting aircraft and some have more exciting manoeuvres, but the Reds have always nailed a silky smooth, seamless routine (I remember watching the Thunderbirds at Waddington and being amazed at how disjointed their display routine was - the commentator was constantly filling for the lack of action in front of you).

The Reds have their place and some seasoned show-goers might be bored of them, but they are almost always the star attraction at a show. I personally don't think they exist for the died-in-the-wool aviation fan (notoriously difficult to please! (I didn't say snobbish, you did!)).

Now.... in recent times, their reputation seems to have gone to their heads and when you're continuously told how good you are/the thing that you're a part of is, it can exaggerate the sense of self and cloud judgement. Hopefully this Ctrl/Alt/Del the team are going through makes them all hungry to not only show the RAF & the UK in a positive light, but also to show that dignity & high performance can be perfect bedfellows.

There are few finer sights in aviation than nine Red jets in tight formations, trailing smoke, against a bright blue sky. I can't wait for next season!

NG

[slogen51]

The elitist culture needs to go in my opinion and the situation would then naturally normalize. Anyway a change of command should help although I have not served in the RAF so I am only guessing about that

( the real elite flew Tornado low over Iraq in the dark)

Smoke on go !

[Blackcat1]

Don't forget the Thunderbirds are a Demo team not an aerobatic team. I always enjoy watching all teams, they're all unique in their own way .

[James Cutting]

They looked extremely disjointed as a 7 ship this past year due to 2 personnel being rightly dismissed. It looked rubbish, not very good or smooth. Would rather see other display items from the RAF than the Dead Sparrows.

Thunderbirds comparison is irrelevant.

[raptor9]

Agree with Blackcat and James. One cannot compare the Red Arrows with the Thunderbirds. One team is an Aerobatic Team, and the other is a Precision Flying Team. They are both good to watch, but in my opinion, whilst I loved watching the Thunderbirds on a good few occasions, I considered their flying to be unnecessarily dangerous by being much too close to each other. Would it really hurt their display to be another two feet apart? Anyone else see the near miss they had in Florida the other day?

[capercaillie]

They looked extremely disjointed as a 7 ship this past year

That's because there was 8 of them!

[slogen51]

I was going to say that an odd number such as 7 should be ok as you have a lead with an even number each side, although 9 is better than 7

Enid formation of 5 hawks looked fine practicing overhead Waddington today.

[James Cutting]

7 at RIAT, but recalled it wrong as that was due to an 'unwell' pilot.

Well obviously it looked fine, Enid is always 5!

[slogen51]

Is it ?

Didn't know that obviously

[C24]

?Books to read?

Julian, Dick, Anne, George and Timmy the dog find excitement and adventure wherever they go in Enid Blyton's most popular series. Five On A Treasure Island and 21 other titles.

[Nighthawke]

How about Secret Seven Get Into Trouble...!

[Alf]

“The Not So Magnificent Seven”

[sabrejet]

When the Red Arrows inexplicably re-named themselves "The Reds", I noted a downturn in standards; their displays became mundane and their supporters didn't seem to mind. Back in the days of the Red Arrows (Gnats), one would look forward to their displays - even the early years with Hawks were reasonably good.

So maybe time to go back to using "Red Arrows" as the team name and get back to the kind of display we used to have. Or disband the team altogether. I shan't miss The Reds but I do miss The Red Arrows.

[Doughnut]

I guess "The Reds" is some thing to do with the hashtag generation and every thing being reduced to the smallest number of letters ?

[reaper493]

Watching them practice over Waddington in the new restricted airspace for winter training, and seeing their other training flights in recent months, it feels as though this team is different.

The 'Mayfly' sorties with two jets to practice formation flying seems to have worked well, at least half of the non display pilots (Vulcan 8* series) are all ex Reds.
Bondy was brought in pretty early it feels and he seems to be making very quick progress with the first five ship a couple of weeks ago.

See what happens when they do Springhawk

[RAF4EVER]

Red Arrows in 'special measures' after sexual harassment report::

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lin ... e-67417428