Why do US military (generally) avoid overflying Belgian airspace?

[Cavemonster]

I can't find the answer on the forum and I know there is/was a reason but forgotten (old age?).

Watching RCH462 C130 out of Ramstein now heading towards the Azores.... like nearly all similar transits, it routed all the way up to the Netherlands to join the TACAN route structure in UK, then out via Lands End which seems a significant extra distance. I assume that avoiding France is some historical issue requiring NATO paperwork but avoiding Belgium? Obviously Brussels inbounds go through Belgian airspace and some transports overfly as GAT to/from Ramstein, but most don't and they can't all be carrying hazardous cargo that could mean not overflying NATO HQ in Brussels or the centre of London?

Thanks

[POL]

Belgium's airspace is famously congested and military flights have the lowest priority for flight planning. It's quicker just to go round than be stuck on the ground at your departure aerodrome waiting for a slot that's getting later and later.

[Yammer]

" I assume that avoiding France is some historical issue requiring NATO paperwork but avoiding Belgium..............."

France is a member of NATO

[Ranger]

France GAT for overflying isn't a problem, only a risk of slottimes. France OAT for overflying is a nightmare because the flightplan has to be checked by the French militairies first, during that time you have to wait for acceptance or refusal. Waiting for that message takes a wee while. When getting a refusal they don't explain why it is refused so avoiding puzzling and frustration it's easier to avoid French airspace.

Cheers,
Ranger

[Cavemonster]

Thanks guys, I know France is in NATO but assumed extra paperwork issues from when it wasn't (70s 80s 90s and most of the naughties) still lingered on. But yes, I get simplicity.

Thinking about the 'serial/reg swapping' 757s/C-32s, which I haven't noticed much but they're probably using the cloaking device, they presumably would swap from e.g. 96143 to N610G so they can fly over some states that wouldn't permit USMIL overflights e.g. Cuba where civilian N reg are allowed?

[Ranger]

Thanks guys, I know France is in NATO but assumed extra paperwork issues from when it wasn't (70s 80s 90s and most of the naughties) still lingered on. But yes, I get simplicity.

Thinking about the 'serial/reg swapping' 757s/C-32s, which I haven't noticed much but they're probably using the cloaking device, they presumably would swap from e.g. 96143 to N610G so they can fly over some states that wouldn't permit USMIL overflights e.g. Cuba where civilian N reg are allowed?

On special flights, like head of state or government flights and there are more, one can put such a remark in the flightplan, item18 the infopart of the flightplan,
so this flight is exempted from restrictions.

Cheers,
Ranger

[dicanio]

Well the story I was told is that the US Army forced the change from 7.62mm to 5.56mm NATO standard ammunition for assault rifles in 1981.

Belgium previously supplied a lot of the widely used NATO standard 7.62 ammo, and was mighty peeved when this change occurred as it meant the US became the de facto primary supplier of 5.56 ammo (which they’d been producing since 1969 for the US Army’s M16A1 rifle).

As retaliation Belgium banned regular MAC (now Reach) flights from its airspace, and the ban continues today. Brussels ACC will not accept any non emergency eastbound RCH traffic into Ramstein, for example, or westbound oceanic departures.

DC

[Vulture 01]

My theory, for what it's worth.
Brussels is part time HQ for the EU.
With so many members it takes a lifetime for the EU to reach a decision.
Maybe the military thought the same would apply to ATC instructions as well, so, rather than hang about, they avoid it.......

Just a thought.






PS; I am joking, just in case anyone thought I was serious.......

[roughcutter]

Come to think of it, why do US military (generally) avoid overflying Liverpool?

[steamy]

congestion... more handovers when descending into German bases... pre-agreed military routing (like TACAN routes in UK) (probably the main reason, as the main ingress/egress point for UK airspace and Europe is NAVPI)... probably avoidance of military cargo overflying EU/NATO etc.. centre of operations (rolled into pre-agreed military routing)

[DJ17]

They (mostly) avoid the Republic of Ireland's airspace as well.

[Irish251]

They (mostly) avoid the Republic of Ireland's airspace as well.

Yes, unfortunately.

What was fine during the Cold War (memories of streams of Reforger exercise C-141 traffic) attracted much more public and political attention in more recent times, and now AMC flights almost invariably avoid Irish sovereign airspace unless their destination is in Ireland.

[steamy]

They (mostly) avoid the Republic of Ireland's airspace as well.

Yes, unfortunately.

What was fine during the Cold War (memories of streams of Reforger exercise C-141traffic) attracted much more public and political attention in more recent times, and now AMC flights almost invariably avoid Irish sovereign airspace unless their destination is in Ireland.

AMC flights are boring anyway

[Nighthawke]

If you think AMC flights are boring now, wait until they remove all markings including serials!

[steamy]

I know, hobby is over as we know it... no point in life