The Ukraine Situation

[Blackcat1]

You can’t seem to say anything about Putin on face ache without being banned so I would just like to say .......... I hate the b*****d!!!

Hope Suckitberg isn’t watching

[Vulcanone]

You could say Russia had problems with their Royal family and they basically wiped them all out barely a 100 years ago which included killing children - nice bunch!!

I don't know why you keep banging on about Nazism? Unless you think it justifies russians bombing residential flats in the Ukraine?

I don't know if your support of Russia is you playing some form of perverse intellectual ' devil's advocate ' to promote discussion but using death and war to demonstrate your advocacy skill doesn't impress me.

Seconded.

As a former aviation publishing picture researcher, I challenge some to go do what I did for the Mil Mi-24 article in World Air Power Journal 37 back in 1999...

For every 1 pic of a Hind in use on combat ops, particularly in Chechnya there were usually 1000 pics of sniper or landmine victims. And ironically the current idiot running that suggests using Nukes in Ukraine.

[Condor68]

You can’t seem to say anything about Putin on face ache without being banned so I would just like to say .......... I hate the b*****d!!!

Hope Suckitberg isn’t watching

Cant see a problem with that

[Condor68]

i have lived with this all my life and even as a kid and cadet was prepared for it .If that little bald headed twit wants to go nuke I would reckon there are loads who know the death toll but he keeps it quiet because he doesnt want them to know he has lost it as we all might me included

[XWP29]

Well said. Even primary school kids probably know that Britain was at war with the Nazis for longer than the USSR, or maybe lotus lives in a parallel universe where 1941 happened before 1939! I’d expect someone on a British aviation forum to know that the Battle of Britain occurred before Barbarossa…

I think most people are under the impression that Ukraine was/is just a "Land Grab" by Russia - it certainly is not the case,

Well it wasn’t certain that there wouldn’t be a land grab, this hasn’t aged well.

Some history books supposedly say that the Russians have been fighting nazi fascism for hundreds of years - they say starting with the Khazarians don't ask me as I have not read these books.

In the history of WW2, one can find the Ribbentrop - Molotov non aggression pact formed in Aug 1939. Shortly after, under the cover of the pact, the Soviets tried to invade Finland in the 1939 winter war and were roundly defeated.

Stalin then returned to his murderous purge of the Red Army in 1940, he previously purged the Red Army in 1937-8 too.

When operation “Barbarossa” commenced in 1941, Nazi Germany invaded Soviet Russia. The ravaged Red Army were taken completely by surprise and no match for the Nazi’s who, easily rolled them up in the East. Only to be stopped stopped short of Moscow by the Russian winter, and bad command decisions including not issuing winter equipment.

Only by forming an alliance between the Allies could the war be won. A marriage of convenience or a pact with the Devil?
No doubt the ordinary Russian people suffered hugely in the cause to defeat the German Nazi’s and one the Western Allies should remember more.

Delving into the slightly more distant history of the Ukraine, Stalin created famine and starvation with the forced collectivisation of the Kulaks, the land owning peasants. Stealing grain to sell abroad for foreign currency. The resulting starvation killed (murdered) millions, and particularly in the Ukraine. Trotsky deliberately hunted Cossack tribes across Soviet Russia.

In WW2 Cossacks from the Ukraine fought for Nazi Germany as did others from other parts of Soviet Russia. The forces also included Russian POW’s who turned and those White Russians who supported Czarist Russia and left decades before WW2.
After the war the Allies agreed and British troops forced the repatriation of most of them back to the Soviets. Another blood letting followed death or Gulag.
After the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991 the Russians gave the Cossacks pardons.

The history in that area runs deep and is very dark.

The excuse of Putin’s Russia is that it needs to secure its borders, by invading a sovereign country. This in breach of international law, it is very much the same situation as the excuse used to justify the invasion of Finland in 39. You can read all this in history written by both Western and Eastern sources.

In addition the Kazarians? There is no relevance to the current situation. The Kazarians are noted as originating from an area we now call Turkey and they converted to Judaism, unlikely Nazi’s.

[XWP29]

I thought Khazaria was further North taking in parts of Russia and Ukraine?

https://i.postimg.cc/3NV55MsQ/khazar-em ... 727363.jpg

You can read the history here. Irrelevant as it is to the thread.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars

End of debate for me on this one.

[Craig]

A bridge too far this morning...

Absolutely.

And apparently it seems to be the provocation that has moved Russia from carrying out in their words a special military operation into a counter terrorist operation. Next step, declaring war?

So far civilian casualties inside Ukraine have been very low compared to other conflicts, especially ones including the West and our term coined 'collateral damage'. Can anyone disagree with this statement?

I mean if you believe Putin is a madman who was trying to destroy Ukraine and has been on the verge of hitting his nuclear button for all out death and destruction why there have not been far more civilian casualties?

Why is it only in the last couple of days that the Russians have seriously been targeting civilian infrastructure, and not from the beginning if you believe their objective was to wipe out Ukraine?

The evidence suggests the Russians, and militias of the Donetsk and Luhansk peoples republics have been very careful not to harm civilians. Whilst we are on the subject by the way, how many Ukrainian soldiers do you think have died in this proxy war?

The Ukraine government officials have quoted 200-500 deaths per day, and this was prior to their NATO led counteroffensive. Along with 1000 others per day being taken off the battlefield by injury. This is shocking numbers of death and harm in a futile effort to drag the Russians into a war Ukraine will never win, thinking that Western sanctions would take Putin down in a matter of weeks or months which clearly has not happened.

Russia have achieved their goals, they have a land bridge to the Crimea, the peoples of those regions have had their say and joined Russia and the Ukrainian genocide against their own (Russian leaning) populace has been averted.

Not that I should need to remind people of this point, but since the Western backed coup of 2014 the Ukrainian military including Nazi elements have been waging war on a sub sect of their own population. Ending this was Russias given reason for entering those regions.

Like I warned, once they became part of Russia, which they now have through their referenda, an attack on those regions will be seen as an attack on Russia proper.

The Russian position has always been, let these areas dictate their own future and Ukraine to agree to never join NATO and you will have peace. If I was Ukrainian, I would be asking why my government was not pushing to accept those terms right now. The deal does not get any better for them than it is. Carrying on with a futile war will lead to Ukraine getting smashed.

They have lost the very territory and people they were trying to destroy. If they hated them so much as to be killing them for 8 years is that such a loss?

The NATO attacks on the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, and MI6/SBU attack on the Crimea bridge shows how desperate the West are getting, and as I have said before trying to prolong this proxy war is not in anyones interests, least of all the Ukrainians. They are fresh out of ideas as the sanctions have not worked. Well, apart from to ruin the energy economy of Europe.

As Russia ramp up their military involvement in the coming weeks we will likely see the Ukrainian missile defence system destroyed, the civilian energy and communication network taken out, and finally military bases and installations including NATO HQs (plausible deniability as they are not actually boots on the ground perhaps?) taken out.

What I would warn people on this forum about is the real possibility of the West staging a false flag tactical nuclear attack inside Ukraine and framing the Russians for it.

We all really start thinking about what is happening in Ukraine and realise that Russia have not been losing, they are not losing and due to the way Putin has correctly or incorrectly framed this as a clash of cultures and an existential threat to the Russians they simply can not lose.

Unless we do that then we run the risk of incorrectly believing Putin was desperate and lead us to believe our/Ukrainian government/media potential lies. Putin has no need to use nuclear weapons, and would benefit from no way in doing so.

So ask yourself why the Western talking heads keep going on about it, rather than talking about peace instead? They are either just trying to scare you, or they are priming us for something.

Hopefully not of course.

[slogen51]

We are all entitled to an opinion in this country as unlike russians we are free to think

So my opinion is you should change your profile picture from a 493FS Eagle to perhaps a Mig-29. I think your opinions are not worthy of that great Lakenheath squadron - who have done a great job of trying to keep Putin in his box

I just noticed that you mentioned the Referendum - unbelievable

I am shocked craig - I want to distance myself from your views ( which you are entitled to) especially on this website that spends a lot of time tracking and photographing military aircraft belonging to our NATO friends

[Craig]

We are all entitled to an opinion in this country as unlike russians we are free to think

So my opinion is you should change your profile picture from a 493FS Eagle to perhaps a Mig-29. I think your opinions are not worthy of that great Lakenheath squadron - who have done a great job of trying to keep Putin in his box

I just noticed that you mentioned the Referendum - unbelievable

I am shocked craig - I want to distance myself from your views ( which you are entitled to) especially on this website that spends a lot of time tracking and photographing military aircraft belonging to our NATO friends

Thank you for upholding free speech, and I respect your right to disagree and disassociate from the point of view I am expressing.

I hope it doesn't come across as me being being deliberately obtuse, that is not the intention, but accepting a BBC only world view where you believe what the Western politicians and media say as verboten is dangerous.

Seriously, listen to what they do say, it has no substance. Due to something called the rapid response mechanism set up by Theresa May at the G7 a few years back it is actually parrot talk, no evidence or reasoning, just blanket repeating of the same words. For example 'sham referendum'. Ok, firstly prove it, and secondly pot calling the kettle black especially when you look at the US election for example.

I'm just trying to encourage people to think critically and look at other sources, especially when it seems like something seriously underhand could be headed humanity's way...

Thanks for the suggestion to change my profile picture but I'm quite happy with the Eagle!

I can remember when people used to post pictures up on this forum from shows like MAKS which were received in a really positive way. Was that really only just a couple of years ago before Russophobia reached its current climax...?

[XWP29]

Well worth reading
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/12/ ... ia-ukraine

[65thAgressor]

Craig i am all for free speech. But after reading your views I am speechless.

[Finty]

Utter tripe I’m afraid. I can’t be arrised with typing out a long response but let’s just summarise by saying that if you really think Putin isn’t unhinged or that the referendums were legitimate then there’s no point debating you.

[paddyboy]

Sounds like an alter-ego of Jeremy Corbyn is masquerading as someone else on FC to me

Utter tripe indeed

The use of that avatar I find offensive as well

[raptor9]

As the song goes 'two sides to every story' [Chris de Burgh]. Visited Russia and the Ukraine in 1991. Russia was strange and forbidding. Ukraine was delightful, Kiev is/was beautiful. It's great to live in a country that allows free speech.

[slogen51]

I am British Born and Bread, and quite well travelled, I also spent some time in Russia holidaying for over Two years (yes I took in a lot of sights) I always found them a really friendly people - very keen to chat and share a Vodka, I have also visited Kiev and found the general folk there no different from Russia - very warming.

You spent two years in Russia on holiday? And you are a member of FC - the yanks are right when they refer to us tongue in cheek as russian spies !


I quite frankly don't believe you spent two years in Russia on holiday

You are so patronising to think that you are the only one who can think for themselves.

It is you who are supporting the Russian war criminals who routinely fire random missiles into residential areas not knowing how many innocent children will be harmed or made homeless. I don't like to use the scum word - I see sturgeon refers to Tory scum and in another thread someone refers to Redbull employees as scum - they are just people BUT in my opinion the Russian officers who target residential properties and schools are scum and you happily align yourself with that regime.

I noticed there are a few people on here who like to live out Walter Mitty type lives by posting some quite unlikely scenarios

[slogen51]

So you have gone from saying you spent two years there to basically going on an organised spotting trip to the Moscow area ?

[slogen51]

What are you saying?

you agree with the war and you are saying the Ukrainians are happy to be liberated?

I only ask because I cannot believe a non russian living outside of Russia and seeing the images can possibly condone the actions of that man?

[steamy]

I am British Born and Bread, and quite well travelled, I also spent some time in Russia holidaying for over Two years (yes I took in a lot of sights) I always found them a really friendly people - very keen to chat and share a Vodka, I have also visited Kiev and found the general folk there no different from Russia - very warming.

You spent two years in Russia on holiday? And you are a member of FC - the yanks are right when they refer to us tongue in cheek as russian spies !


I quite frankly don't believe you spent two years in Russia on holiday

You are so patronising to think that you are the only one who can think for themselves.

It is you who are supporting the Russian war criminals who routinely fire random missiles into residential areas not knowing how many innocent children will be harmed or made homeless. I don't like to use the scum word - I see sturgeon refers to Tory scum and in another thread someone refers to Redbull employees as scum - they are just people BUT in my opinion the Russian officers who target residential properties and schools are scum and you happily align yourself with that regime.

I noticed there are a few people on here who like to live out Walter Mitty type lives by posting some quite unlikely scenarios

I spent time touring Russia over different years Not in one go - same with other countries including Ukraine and the rest of the World.

I also have direct contact with people who live in both countries - where are you getting your oppinion from - the daily news media or have you contact with anyone who lives in Ukraine - i Guess not.

in that case I'll tell the Ukrainian kids down the local club that their house in Bucha is actually OK, that most of their Dad's haven't been conscripted or killed and that the western media just made all this up

[steamy]

I never said the media made it ALL up, I said they are not 100% accurate in everything they report about the whole situation.

You are projecting condescending views, making out because you have been to places and spoke to people, that no one here has done that also, that your viewpoint is somehow superior because of that, and others is lower because they lap up everything western media portrays and aren't finding out for themselves..

When you know absolutely nothing about that.

This "somewhere in the middle" view is utterly ridiculous, and it's this type of fence sitting (although judging by your other posts you are definitely on the Russian side of the fence, but want to portray neutral) is the majority reason why the world is in this situation in the first place.

But it's OK, you've your ear to the ground on all of this and know it's not just a land grab, Putin was pushed into this, he had no choice because [insert weekly war justification change]

[Vulcanone]

One thing I will add - do not trust the media - news / tv / radio as they do not relay the true facts over most situations - go out and search things for yourself use your own eyes - remember the old saying about seeing it with your own eyes.

Hmmmm ever tried picture researcher as a job?
Picture the situation (excuse the pun)

Searching for photos of Mil Mi-24s on combat ops around the world in early 1999. At a press agency off Fleet street, for every 1 of the photos in World Air Power 37.... In particular, there were 1000s of shots from Chechnya of what the Russians did, and they were from the days when Yeltsin was in charge... A leopard doesn't change its spots. Oh by the way winter is coming Dearest Vladimir......

I wonder what happened to all them transparencies and wire prints... Sniper and landmine victims while eating your breakfast?....

Well the publisher did do the Real Life Crimes part work. Oh and Combat and survival.. Ah mercenaries stories over lunch Good job I have a cast iron stomach.

Something for you to chew on perhaps.