Vulcan - Wellesbourne 16/09/22

[XR221]

This is the clearest film I've seen so far of the 'run off'. The mud/grass area was just enough to slow it to avoid the road, coupled with the pilot steering left for a bit more room.
https://youtu.be/K0LThOe0CyI

[raptor9]

Crikey!. Now it has been removed, the area where it came to rest now looks like my front lawn!!!. WE NEED RAIN!!!!

[Tally-ho]

Like many of us here, I too have read the reports, and seen the video footage, of this near disaster. What is most disconcerting to me is the cavalier approach by those at Wellesbourne Airfield who thought it safe and acceptable to proceed:-

- fast-taxi this airplane with only the Airspeed Indicator (defective as it turns out) to show speed
- relying on the P2 (co-pilot) to call the speed by voice to P1 (pilot). Charging down a runway, relying on voice read-outs to tell you when to power down ...
- no airbrakes deployment
- no brake chute deployment
- no margin of safety between the end of the runway and an in-use public road
- all of this on a paltry 2,000 feet of runway (Bruntingthorpe had 9,000 feet)

As much as we all enjoy aviation, this whole XM655 jolly down a far too short runway, is plain reckless.

[cat1]

As much as we all enjoy aviation, this whole XM655 jolly down a far too short runway, is plain reckless.

if there were 30 Vulcans left, then maybe by some major stretch of the imagination this could be allowable.
there's not 30, not 10, not 5, or even 2. there's ONE that still runs and this is what they do with it?
in the mean time any slim hope of a transit flight clearance from the CAA disappears....

[Supra]

there's ONE that still runs and this is what they do with it?
in the mean time any slim hope of a transit flight clearance from the CAA disappears....

I'm thinking there might be 3 maybe? Wellesbourne, Southend & Doncaster (for now!)

[cat1]

there's ONE that still runs and this is what they do with it?
in the mean time any slim hope of a transit flight clearance from the CAA disappears....

I'm thinking there might be 3 maybe? Wellesbourne, Southend & Doncaster (for now!)

i stand to be corrected! i thought only one is in condition to do taxi runs??
my knowledge of Vulcans is incredibly small so happy to learn!

[jimbo]

Like many of us here, I too have read the reports, and seen the video footage, of this near disaster. What is most disconcerting to me is the cavalier approach by those at Wellesbourne Airfield who thought it safe and acceptable to proceed:-

- fast-taxi this airplane with only the Airspeed Indicator (defective as it turns out) to show speed
- relying on the P2 (co-pilot) to call the speed by voice to P1 (pilot). Charging down a runway, relying on voice read-outs to tell you when to power down ...
- no airbrakes deployment
- no brake chute deployment
- no margin of safety between the end of the runway and an in-use public road
- all of this on a paltry 2,000 feet of runway (Bruntingthorpe had 9,000 feet)

As much as we all enjoy aviation, this whole XM655 jolly down a far too short runway, is plain reckless.

Not sure of some of the information you've written
I'm not sure how else pilots could gauge speed, I've only got one airspeed indicator in the Cessna I fly and that only comes alive after about 20kts, it needs a flow of air. Aircraft don't have speedos
It's normal for P2 to call out speeds while P1 concentrates on controlling the aircraft, I could be wrong but isn't this standard practise in commercial aircraft, I'd want to be eyes out while accelerating down the runway not eyes down looking at a dial.
Re the Airbrakes / chute, i agree no idea why they wouldn't use unless they were in-op for this practise taxi
Wellesbourne runway 36 is actually 917mtrs / 3,000ft in length give or take with another 200mtrs / 700ft before the road

I do agree it was a close call,

[Crusty]

Like many of us here, I too have read the reports, and seen the video footage, of this near disaster. What is most disconcerting to me is the cavalier approach by those at Wellesbourne Airfield who thought it safe and acceptable to proceed:-

- fast-taxi this airplane with only the Airspeed Indicator (defective as it turns out) to show speed
- relying on the P2 (co-pilot) to call the speed by voice to P1 (pilot). Charging down a runway, relying on voice read-outs to tell you when to power down ...
- no airbrakes deployment
- no brake chute deployment
- no margin of safety between the end of the runway and an in-use public road
- all of this on a paltry 2,000 feet of runway (Bruntingthorpe had 9,000 feet)

As much as we all enjoy aviation, this whole XM655 jolly down a far too short runway, is plain reckless.

Didnt want to say, but if they really did perform a fast taxi in a Vulcan at a runway as short as wellesbourne without a GPS showing groundspeed and a bloke shouting shouting its output into the ear of the guy with the throttles in his hands, then its a case of the 3 Ps.

[Sparts99]

Asking as I genuinely don't know, would air brakes and a braking chute have had any effect at the speeds achieveable on run of that length? What speed could the Vulcan get up to with a safety margin? And, I've seen here and in other places mention made of the CAA being involved, if the wheels don't leave the ground do they have any jurisdiction?

[2e1var]

I assume ex Vulcan pilots car out these runs and not Bob and his mate who saw a video on youtube once ?

[Vulcanone]

Interestingly, while its not soil, they have a (gravel)? overrun stopping system in place at Northolt as a result of the Spanish Learjet overrun onto the A40 in August 1996.

Aside from that, the facts are clearly easy to find on the XM655 facebook group. And one of the crew was ex Concorde, I can't remember what the RAF pilot flew.

[XR221]

Wing Cmdr Mike Pollitt (Retd) is an ex RAF Vulcan pilot and also flew XH558 while it was flying on the civil register and is one of the 2 crew pictured with the aircraft after the incident.

[tim_raper]

Interestingly, while its not soil, they have a (gravel)? overrun stopping system in place at Northolt as a result of the Spanish Learjet overrun onto the A40 in August 1996.

Aside from that, the facts are clearly easy to find on the XM655 facebook group. And one of the crew was ex Concorde, I can't remember what the RAF pilot flew.

It's a bit more advanced than gravel, specifically called EMAS, at both ends.
https://www.aidu.mod.uk/aip/pdf/ad/EGWU ... mbined.pdf

HTH

[Vulcanone]

Thanks Tim.

Not one of those things in the hobby, I took much note of....

[Tally-ho]

@jimbo
- runway is 3,000 feet, I stand corrected. For a Vulcan fast-taxi run it is still far too short - Bruntingthorpe remains the benchmark at 9,000 feet for fast-taxi back in the day.
- P1 relying on P2 for verbal feedback, him looking at a faulty ASI, as the only means of speed monitoring is farcical. A busy public road looming ahead ...

@Sparts99
- air brakes and/or braking chute, I take your point. So what did they have, some 1950's era brakes and the small field between runway and road? You get my point.

@2e1var
- "... pilots car out these runs ...". What?

The issue is and remains:-
A Vulcan doing a fast-taxi run on 3,000 feet of runway, ending up next to a busy public road, is not defensible. No amount of jiggery-pokery can justify the decision to 'go for it'. There will be consequences, it cannot be business as usual.

[Nighthawke]

Asking as I genuinely don't know, would air brakes and a braking chute have had any effect at the speeds achieveable on run of that length? What speed could the Vulcan get up to with a safety margin? And, I've seen here and in other places mention made of the CAA being involved, if the wheels don't leave the ground do they have any jurisdiction?

The CAA issue the licence for an airfield to operate. Whilst I am not familiar with the ins-and-outs, I suspect that in the conditions, safety to the public (in this case the adjacent public highway) is covered. If so then the airfield could have the license suspended or even revoked.

[quid21]

Wouldn't have wanted to be in that car going past just as it reached the dirt.....!

Interesting they don't use a simple GPS to measure speed in the cockpit - afterall it's never going to fly again, so why rely on very old airspeed indicators - assuming the ASI is the original equipment.

This incident reminds me of the final flight of the Victor at Bruntingthorpe where that too had too much power for too long......

If the margin is a couple of seconds between safely stopping and going off the runway, as a layman, I'd want ten seconds or more not two seconds margin....!!

Just glad no-one was hurt, but can't help but think these fast taxi runs are soon going to be a thing of the past. Shame, I always enjoyed Bruntingthorpe, and had one day hoped to get to see the Southend Vulcan or this one, I might be too late.

[Supra]

I assume ex Vulcan pilots car out these runs and not Bob and his mate who saw a video on youtube once ?

Fret not over this cryptic snippet Tally-ho
@2e1var- "... pilots car out these runs ...". What?

For the purposes of clarification, it's okay, rest easy, I speaks Devon!
Translation... "I'm assuming it's Ex Vulcan Pilots that carry out these runs, not Bob & his associate who once saw a Youtube video tutorial on how to drive a Vulcan, or similar?"

[SeaFuryFan]

Put a marker board on the runway problem solved !!!

[cat1]

is it now required by the moderators of this aircraft forum that all speak traditional English?