The Ukraine Situation

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4 sites with 15 reactors, makes better sense than the ambiguous term 'plant' - a bit like those heavy plants that always cross roads.
I'd need to check but I'm not sure whether a land battle has ever happened around a nuclear site before - Syria keeps getting its hit by Israel but a land battle around one, not so sure.

[ArabJazzie]

Unfortunately the nuclear deterrent is just that. In my opinion the rapid expansion of NATO Eastwards during the last 20yrs has been against the ethos of what it was set up to do and has been counter productive to the point where it has in fact now put itself in a very precarious position. There are two sayings that I think are pretty apt “ you’re only as strong as your weakest link” and “the bigger you are, the harder you fall”.

As much as we may want to get involved militarily in Ukraine, unfortunately it’s just not an option, providing defensive aid and by all accounts humanitarian aid is as far as we should go. Hopefully the sanctions that are being imposed on Russia by the World, will cause an ousting of Putin from within.

Did the founding NATO countries seek that eastwards expansion, or did the former Eastern Bloc and Soviet countries seek the collective protection membership affords? I think we are now seeing that these countries are fully justified in seeking that membership, and i fully expect Sweden and Finlands membership will soon be rubber stamped. Will Putin see an aggressive act in 2 countries seeking protection?

Linked in to the involvement, i do not understand in any way as to why Poland supplying these MIG-29s is an aggressive act when Ukraine has been supplied with anti-aircraft and anti-tank weapons. Get the pilots to the aircraft and let them defend themselves!

[slogen51]

I don't think you will find that the UK population are quite as ignorant about NATO as you are making out. Did you know what Article 5 said before looking it up? Let us not start hypothesising about what may happen and concentrate on the present.

The Polish Mig deal seems to have been discounted. Greece and Turkey, both full NATO members do not exactly border on to the North Atlantic.

You have reinforced my point - I had no idea what article 5 said until I looked it up plus NATO expansion is almost bound to encompass hot spots - something that perfectly suits the arms lobby.

Until recently NATO expansion has been a non issue or at the very least not at the forefront of political debate but it is now.

[slogen51]

Another thing I didn't know

Ripped from Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia% ... ooperation.

Russia - NATO relations

Relations between the NATO military alliance and the Russian Federation were established in 1991 within the framework of the North Atlantic Cooperation Council.[1][2] In 1994, Russia joined the Partnership for Peace program, and since that time, NATO and Russia have signed several important agreements on cooperation.[3]


Russia
The Russia–NATO Council was established in 2002 for handling security issues and joint projects.[4] Cooperation between Russia and NATO now develops in several main sectors, including: fighting terrorism, military cooperation, cooperation on Afghanistan (including transportation by Russia of non-military International Security Assistance Force freight (see NATO logistics in the Afghan War), and fighting the local drug production), industrial cooperation, and weapons non-proliferation.[5]

On 1 April 2014, NATO unanimously decided to suspend all practical co-operation with the Russian Federation in response to the Annexation of Crimea, but the NATO-Russia Council (NRC) was not suspended.[6] On 18 February 2017, the Russian Minister of Foreign Affairs Sergey Lavrov said he supported the resumption of military cooperation with the NATO alliance.[7] In late March 2017, the Council met in advance of a NATO Foreign Ministers conference in Brussels, Belgium.[8]

In October 2021, following an incident in which NATO expelled eight Russian officials from its Brussels headquarters, Russia suspended its mission to NATO and ordered the closure of NATO's office in Moscow.[9][10]

[Rhubarb]

Listened to BBC 5 live at mid day. They were speaking to a Ex Forces Miltary Stratogist called Peter Bellamy. I believe he said 'not word for word' that the USA don't want Poland to give their Mig 29's to the Ukraine as :- They have Nato Avionics fitted ? Does he mean encrypted IFF or what ? Why cant they just take the black boxes out ? Even if the pilots have to use dead recogning its better than not having them at all ? Surly the USA can afford to give Poland a hundred ex national guard F16's or even old F15's. Then Poland and the west would be even better off with a NATO compatable air force ? Come on Uncle Sam I'm sure it would be happening if Donald was still in charge ?

[seven]

1, whilst I can't say for sure what avionics are fitted to the Polish Fulcrum fleets, you can't just remove systems without replacement, and even if older systems were refitted (assuming 1 its still available, and 2 possible), it would need to be tested before put into action. This takes time.
2, any pilots using 'dead reckoning' on a battlefield aren't going to last long. And even if they did, it won't just be russia ending up destroying civilian areas.
3, a hundred ex-ANG F-16s or even F-15s, assuming airframes are available, all of these are going to need maintenance, and won't be of the same spec as Polish operated variants, so naturally pilots will require extra training, which takes time and costs money. And F-15s would be a new type to the Polish AF, so new pilots will be required to train from scratch here, and that takes years, certainly to get to squadron status. As for the US can afford so, yes they probably could, but the funding has to come from somewhere, what should be cut back to pay for it? And don't forget the airframes donated will need replacing..
4, Poland is NATO compatible. And their experience with MiG and Sukhoi types is invaluable to NATO.
5, less said about him the better.

[Malcolm]

Listened to BBC 5 live at mid day. They were speaking to a Ex Forces Miltary Stratogist called Peter Bellamy. I believe he said 'not word for word' that the USA don't want Poland to give their Mig 29's to the Ukraine as :- They have Nato Avionics fitted ? Does he mean encrypted IFF or what ? Why cant they just take the black boxes out ? Even if the pilots have to use dead recogning its better than not having them at all ? Surly the USA can afford to give Poland a hundred ex national guard F16's or even old F15's. Then Poland and the west would be even better off with a NATO compatable air force ? Come on Uncle Sam I'm sure it would be happening if Donald was still in charge ?

Half the polish Migs are based less than 150 miles from the Ukrainian Border - at Minsk Mazowiecki. They were offering to fly them to Ramstein (a US base in Germany), which is over 800 miles from the Ukrainian border, and 'give' the problem to the US/EU to sort out. They've basically called the US/EU bluff on this plan, and Blinken has blinked.

The Migs were all upgraded in Germany about 15 years ago to fully integrate with NATO. If you rip all the upgraded NATO stuff out, how is a pilot supposed to operate his aircraft - by looking out the window?

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Another thing I didn't know

Russia - NATO relations

I understand there's a few operational agreements in place with the Russians as well despite them being the aggressors, for example, I don't believe it's a coincidence that US reconnaissance flights in Europe now use the same callsigns (Jake11, Redeye08, Black01, Forte10 etc.).

[baz1]

one man holding the world to ransom

[steamy]

one man holding the world to ransom

precisely, and all this fumbling is just pandering to him..

Get those Migs to Ukraine

[baz1]

one man holding the world to ransom

precisely, and all this fumbling is just pandering to him..

Get those Migs to Ukraine

he is just using the world as puppets seems everyone is scared shi-less of him, i see he as moved is family to some underground city near Siberia why not target them and see how he likes it.

[AyrForce1]

Lithuania and Latvia have renamed their streets housing their Russian embassies to "Ukrainian Hero's Street" and "Independent Ukraine Street" respectively so that the employees of the embassy will have this in their address.

[colp]

Slightly off topic. I have noticed quite a few Russian airliners coming through as an Squawk 7700 alert on the FR24 app. One particular flight landed at Kaliningrad, and my ignorance of it's whereabouts took me rather by surprise!!

[steamy]

Slightly off topic. I have noticed quite a few Russian airliners coming through as an Squawk 7700 alert on the FR24 app. One particular flight landed at Kaliningrad, and my ignorance of it's whereabouts took my rather by surprise!!

Here's another surprise, the Russian's have nuclear weapons there (known) since 2018, along with moving MIG-31 jets with their new hypersonic missiles to there in Jan/Feb...

It's just an exercise though

[Rob666]

I recall the Bill Gate's talk at the conference, I don't recall him saying about Ukraine but do remember him talking about smallpox and it would kill millions. However its a really big stretch to say the people are suffering as a result of those in charge, Russia invaded and started the War and if they had not we would not see Nuclear Plants being shot at and taken over and god knows how many Ukraine's dying because of one man. Putin is pure evil.

[raptor9]

I would suggest that Putin's plan is to surround Kiev, and put it under siege. If he destroys much of it, and then wins his 'special military operation', then the Russian people will then be able to see for themselves what damage and deaths he had caused. I think he will be anxious to avoid that!!. It would reveal the truth.

[binbrook87]

But the majority of Russian people never get to see or hear the truth. If Kyiv heaven forbid is laid to waste, Putin and his media will probably say that the Ukrainian 'Nazis' have destroyed it.... further strengthening his case to his people of why his army was sent there in the first place 'to protect the greater Russian empire'. When the truth is so distorted anything is possible.

[Morseman]

Turkey is a member of NATO this is the full list. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO

[raptor9]

Just heard from a friend about the truth in Russia. His partner has a daughter who lives in Latvia [she is English]. The daughter has two Russian girlfriends, both of whose parents live in Moscow. The friends have tried and tried to convince their parents that it is a war again Ukraine, and that it is very, very bad. The parents reply'' if you continue to spread these lies about Russia, we will take you out of University!!.'' Hopeless situation!!!.

[baz1]

Just heard from a friend about the truth in Russia. His partner has a daughter who lives in Latvia [she is English]. The daughter has two Russian girlfriends, both of whose parents live in Moscow. The friends have tried and tried to convince their parents that it is a war again Ukraine, and that it is very, very bad. The parents reply'' if you continue to spread these lies about Russia, we will take you out of University!!.'' Hopeless situation!!!.

brain washed fools