CANCELLED Royal International Air Tattoo 2021 - General Discussion Thread

[Headance99]

Glastonbury just been scrubbed.

https://news.sky.com/story/glastonbury- ... y-12194497

Appreciate RIAT is not as compressed as this event but does share some similar challenges, the organisation at Glastonbury have sadly conceded defeat.

[page_verify]

I'm not being negative, just realistic & that has to be a positive!

Agreed, people thinking it can go ahead is like a three-legged cat trying to think it can bury a turd on a frozen lake.

(Some firms have on-going business interruption and supply chain insurances that continue to protect against some forms of cancellation, but I get your point that RIAT is highly unlikely to have the same insurance cover this year as it did the year it flooded, well said, good point, thank you)

[podge]

Not looking good I’d say

[The Star of Woo]

Why oh why can't they just put us all out of our misery and just get on and announce that it's cancelled. Surely nobody in their right mind, unless in posession of a Haz-Mat suit, would seriously consider actually going this year.

[Skywatcher]

As much as I’m sure we all would wish it to go ahead ,there is a big difference between wishing and the reality of the moment ,in this case I have to say it ain’t looking good ,RIAT will have to announce something shortly I’m sure as a obligation to the people who have already got tickets etc or have moved them over from last year’s cancellation like myself (would that mean that they will role over to next year ??)so far noting heard as far as I know from RIAT about that option as yet that I’m aware of -unless anyone else has heard anything?
It’s all about being sensible and more importantly safe ,I’d definitely not go if there was still a very high risk
Also comes a point of how long do you leave the announcement of a go or no go ,as we all did not like the entirely predictable cancellation of last year being so relatively late in the day maybe a month to go I think it was ,I know 08 cancelled a day before but that was slightly different circumstances
That’s me thinking realisticlly although 50% I’m fingers it can still happen in a positive way with all the correct measures in place
Also thought usually a number of aircraft normally confirm around now seems worryingly quite on that front other than the provisional A-10 Demo mentioned ,there has been hardly any announcement,normally the Swiss are one of the first to confirm around this time of year (?),hopefully i’v made myself clear?
Just my thoughts

[page_verify]

Good point sir - no aircraft participation page, press releases, or mention anywhere for RIAT 2021, is that normal for January?

[TYPHOON3]

It was cancelled in March last year so guessing they are waiting till then to make a final decision ?

[Richard B]

It was cancelled in March last year so guessing they are waiting till then to make a final decision ?

We will still be in lockdown till March. Could be longer. Then it will be Tiers again. So if your in tier 4 or 3 and Fairford is a lower Tier you could not travel, how would they police that.

If any show was to go ahead it would not be a RIAT
Of any scale of past shows, summer fete style at best.

I cannot see many private display teams being willing to pay for display approval insurance or any of the other big costs, with no way of knowing if they will get any bookings enough to cover the outlay.
Foreign display aircraft will be very thin on the ground or in the air.

The cost for entry will go up massively i think, and display will be very small.

But tbh it will not go ahead in my view.

[Skywatcher]

Ahh March time makes sense,I rember now,as Misty flight departed here on the same day back to Whiteman

[page_verify]

The festival industry's trade body said in the newspaper this morning that March will be the cancellation decision point for most music festivals. Glastonbury was an exception in having to make an early decision because of its long setup time and large setup costs.

Does RIAT require more infrastructure than a typical music festival? Does booking 300 aircraft differ from booking 150 music artists? Probably not, so I wouldn't be surprised if RIAT doesn't "speak" until March again.

[Headance99]

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/ ... ssion=true

Council quietly extends lockdown powers until July.

This is pretty disastrous. See above


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The 2018 2019 figures give a flavour of the expenses of running an organisation such as RIAT.

Not sure who requested it but there are actually (wait for it) 10 directors no idea what they all do, but if it is a private company and not a charity (?) that is a pretty heavyweight board.

Most commercial organisations have a CEO, finance Director, Sales Director and HR plus company secretary.

If as someone says the FD left it still leaves 9 directors plus admin, communications staff etc that need paying 2019, 2020 2021 and 2022, although I guess they could be furloughed ?

I assume their remuneration comes out the figures for operating and administrative expenses as they are not shown as salaries.

£11.4m Total expenses is money that would i guess still have to be found unless the board have cut their cloth accordingly and slashed staff as most private companies would, or insurance covers everything?

There are then another 11 trustees who I assume then monitor spending and would not receive any monies. They would however have an obligation to ensure money isn't frittered away without good reason.

In 2019 Total income ftom the trusts "trading companies" was £13m less the £11.4 above that leaves the income remaining of which £1.2m ( plus dividends ) is donated to the RAFCT, add back profit from one off Scampton Show of a mere £116k (not great) and you end up with a profit of just £1.4m with £935k the final figure donated to the charities activities.

These are the last accounts. 2018 2019.

2020 2021 trading figures are not yet available although at least they will have the roll over of ticket sales from 2020 even if admin expenses such as salaries are still paid.

That said with no show there theoretically shouldnt be any salaries as there has been nothing for staff to do for all of 2020 (and a high likelihood of nothing for 2021 either).

This is the real worry for me, it cannot be open ended you cannot pay for example :

Asst accounts,
sales function
Press relations manager 2.6 years salary for 2020 2021 and now 2022 if there is no show ?

There is nothing to promote, nothing to organise and nothing to administer.

It's desperate stuff. Is another roll over till 2022 really feasible?

Those staff that were the fabric of RIAT will surely all now go, how then do you put all this back together in what will realistically be a years time ?

[paddyboy]

Sounds bad

It was great while it lasted

Suspect COVID-19 has changed the air show calendar for ever

[page_verify]

The 2018 2019 figures give a flavour of the expenses of running an organisation such as RIAT.

Indeed. As a former company director my reading of the most recent annual report found many eye openers. I fully subscribe to the concept that charities are actually not-for-profit firms (charity starts at the income statement for me and not before) that often need to pay market rates to get market quality, but even so....

RIAT’s organisational structure has always been top heavy - “jobs for the boys” my grandfather, a retired RAF WO, used to mutter when he read the programmes in the 90s. What surprises me is how many are salaried senior roles gives it’s “only” a £10-15m class firm. Similarly, around 40 FTEs for a seasonal event that’s unlikely to have happened for at least 3 calendar years when it next does happen questions their approach to prudence.

I’m afraid should RIAT’s operating firm run out of cash then I’d want to see some good narrative before I find sympathy. Nonetheless, I hope it can turn itself around given there’s 40 livelihoods involved which I would want to feel had everything tried in order to protect.

[Supra]

Thanks page_verify. A very insightful previous post which together with the other analysis can only reinforce the case for writing-off RIAT 2021 sooner, rather than later! As I'm sure you all know, the current 80% furlough scheme runs until April 2021. Whilst I'm sure the scheme will be extended, I am NOT so sure about the 80% figure continuing? Currently there have only been 'negative items' affecting the list of pro's & con's for RIAT happening, eg:- concerns over the % protection from first injection of Vaccine type 1,2 or 3? Reduction of period between 1st & 2nd injection impacting number of first dose recipients & the Government "Hints" that the restrictions are for the mid to long-term.
Therefore the opportunity to cancel RIAT 2021 (with under 6 months to go) is the ONLY option to best ensure RIAT 2022 is able to proceed. All as my previous post (page 7 )the best plan is to avoid unnecessary costs of staff , cancelled arrangement/contract penalties & other miscellaneous expenses by 'hibernating' DBH until at least November 2021. Any attendee assurances/confirmations before then are as useful as [sic] Titts on a Tortoise!.....IMHO.

[Thunder]

"In 2019 Total income ftom the trusts "trading companies" was £13m less the £11.4 above that leaves the income remaining of which £1.2m ( plus dividends ) is donated to the RAFCT, add back profit from one off Scampton Show of a mere £116k (not great) and you end up with a profit of just £1.4m with £935k the final figure donated to the charities activities.2

If that is the case and I don't doubt it, can RIAT really class themselves as a charitable organisation.

[Richard B]

"In 2019 Total income ftom the trusts "trading companies" was £13m less the £11.4 above that leaves the income remaining of which £1.2m ( plus dividends ) is donated to the RAFCT, add back profit from one off Scampton Show of a mere £116k (not great) and you end up with a profit of just £1.4m with £935k the final figure donated to the charities activities.2

If that is the case and I don't doubt it, can RIAT really class themselves as a charitable organisation.

Yes just like most other charity's, give a penny in the pound job done.

The show was run for many years as a very good charity, from the start in 1971 it was pretty much on a full volunteer basis. Up until recently when it was taken over and run as a private enterprise.

[page_verify]

"In 2019 Total income ftom the trusts "trading companies" was £13m less the £11.4 above that leaves the income remaining of which £1.2m ( plus dividends ) is donated to the RAFCT, add back profit from one off Scampton Show of a mere £116k (not great) and you end up with a profit of just £1.4m with £935k the final figure donated to the charities activities.2

If that is the case and I don't doubt it, can RIAT really class themselves as a charitable organisation.

That’s a fairly good/standard donation ratio.

[steamy]

Just to lighten the mood...

even if it goes manboobs! up....yes you'll lose the experience, but there are a ton of people willing to take over on a voluntary basis...

granted, that'll probably mean a lesser show for a number of year, but I doubt this'll be the death of it.....

what's not shown is the freebies that ran a lot of the show.... NATS gave ATC on a voluntary basis, a lot of the "engineering zone" companies have their stands run as an early careers project by grad students..... you'll have plenty of UK, US and European assets who will want to participate for little cost....

might be an opportunity to cut away the fat.

[100arw]

The event would raise even more cash, if those who just watched from local campsites or near the runway threshold bought tickets :-)
P.

[Richard B]

The event would raise even more cash, if those who just watched from local campsites or near the runway threshold bought tickets :-)
P.

Think the campsites give a better percentage too charity then the show itself, ?