RAF changed Dog grave wording

[Blackcat1]

I had a b**** bird in the garden earlier or should I say a non-white bird!? This is all absolute Meat and two veg! Stop the World I wanna get off!!!

[plmc135]

So what do we now call the need to cut out lights during the night during WW2? I assume a b.... out is now non PC

[Blackcat1]

What about a snowstorm ?? A white out is racist to us whites?!!

[baz1]

yes and what about people who have the surname Black or White do they have to change it by deed poll ???

[EGDR]

I'm really not sure what the relevance of the use of the words "black" and "white" is to a thread about the historical use of an actual racial slur, they're very different things

[Blackcat1]

[paddyboy]

Give up, Gareth

[iainpeden]

Given that this thread is inextricably linked to the Colston statue , my disagreement to the removal of statues and other memorials is based on “Here today, gone tomorrow and forgotten about next week.” I can see the history records accessed by the majority of people gradually becoming sanitised to the point where not only are aspects not talked about but not known about.

As a generalisation we know that the victor writes the history but I wonder if we are moving towards the Japanese curriculum model described here,
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21226068

where the negative and shaming parts of our history are sketched over to the point where the majority have no understanding of the severity. I’ll just put the caveat on that that article is 7 years old now, things may have changed, and the Japanese government have issued an apology over the rape of Nanking.

But I also wonder if those who clamoured for the removal of statues etc will see recent events on a short term basis; “nasty” memorials, removed, job done. The “job” of ending slavery, educating against pejorative language and removing exploitation will probably never end. I had the thought that I wonder how many of those tearing down statues etc were wearing expensive trainers made by child labour in the Far East, or how many were wearing clothing sourced through BooHoo which was made in the sweatshops of Leicester were workers are being exploited in appalling and dangerous employment conditions.

And then, just to add real insult to injury and the RAF statement; the “dog who shall not be named” never drank litres of anything in his life – he was purely a “pint” mutt.

[Blackcat1]

Just remember "Black Labs matter"

[Pune]

Just remember "Black Labs matter"

Brilliant, absolutely brilliant, well said

[Bobcode]

Blackcat1.....succinctly put !

[Tooks]

I wondered if some on FC would be all over this, trying to justify a racist term via whataboutism.

It’s not erasing history, the story of Guy Gibson’s dog can be told without reference to its racist name.

What’s wrong with being sensitive to people alive today with regard to historical racism?

It’s important to have a reasoned debate about such things, so please somebody explain to me why removing reference to the dogs name is a bad thing, if possible without resorting to the ‘It’s PC gone mad’ line?

[mustang5861]

Given the recent events, I'd say you have your head in the clouds as far as hoping for a 'reasoned debate about such things' is concerned. Reason has gone out the window because it cannot be tolerated by those who embrace a 'We're Right, You're Wrong' philosophy and who justify their actions accordingly, so don't hold your breath for a new Age of Enlightenment.

[Tally-ho]

@Tooks
I see your Avatar says Lincolnshireville? . Hmm ...

And then you want a "reasoned debate" with exclusions! You say "without resorting to the ‘It’s PC gone mad’ line?" The first sign of a lost debate is when a person sets pre-conditions to a debate. It's akin to telling Guy Gibson you would like to see his dog but please not to bring a black dog.

Go figure.

[Tooks]

@Tooks
I see your Avatar says Lincolnshireville? . Hmm ...

And then you want a "reasoned debate" with exclusions! You say "without resorting to the ‘It’s PC gone mad’ line?" The first sign of a lost debate is when a person sets pre-conditions to a debate. It's akin to telling Guy Gibson you would like to see his dog but please not to bring a black dog.

Go figure.

Yes, it does say Lincolnshireville, what's your point?

The debate isn't 'lost', it's just that the 'PC Gone Mad' line is often the first retort when somebody questions exactly what is offensive about a race or diversity issue.

Is that your attempt at a debate then, to tell me that I've lost it because I've already heard that line and it doesn't really explain anything at all?

Seriously, why is everybody on 'transmit' these days, never on receive, and why can't anybody explain rationally why removing reference to the dogs name matters a jot in the grand scheme of things?

Oh, and what's with the Guy Gibson straw man argument?

[Tooks]

Given the recent events, I'd say you have your head in the clouds as far as hoping for a 'reasoned debate about such things' is concerned. Reason has gone out the window because it cannot be tolerated by those who embrace a 'We're Right, You're Wrong' philosophy and who justify their actions accordingly, so don't hold your breath for a new Age of Enlightenment.

Well, my head might be in the clouds, but I'm afraid that the debate around enlightenment very much does need to be had, on here as much as anywhere else.

I'm open to having my beliefs challenged, that's healthy, but everybody seems scared to try and enlighten me?

What do people want to say, that they don't feel they can say?

[DAVEBRAD]

Given the recent events, I'd say you have your head in the clouds as far as hoping for a 'reasoned debate about such things' is concerned. Reason has gone out the window because it cannot be tolerated by those who embrace a 'We're Right, You're Wrong' philosophy and who justify their actions accordingly, so don't hold your breath for a new Age of Enlightenment.

Well, my head might be in the clouds, but I'm afraid that the debate around enlightenment very much does need to be had, on here as much as anywhere else.

I'm open to having my beliefs challenged, that's healthy, but everybody seems scared to try and enlighten me?

What do people want to say, that they don't feel they can say?

the name of Gibsons bl*** Labrador, has its relevant to the history of the dams raid...

[Tooks]

Given the recent events, I'd say you have your head in the clouds as far as hoping for a 'reasoned debate about such things' is concerned. Reason has gone out the window because it cannot be tolerated by those who embrace a 'We're Right, You're Wrong' philosophy and who justify their actions accordingly, so don't hold your breath for a new Age of Enlightenment.

Well, my head might be in the clouds, but I'm afraid that the debate around enlightenment very much does need to be had, on here as much as anywhere else.

I'm open to having my beliefs challenged, that's healthy, but everybody seems scared to try and enlighten me?

What do people want to say, that they don't feel they can say?

the name of Gibsons bl*** Labrador, has its relevant to the history of the dams raid...

So, you want to say the name of Guy Gibson's dog?

Is it not possible to tell the story of the Möhne dam raid without reference to the dog?

I've just googled the raid, and the first hits all manage to tell the story without mentioning an offensive word.

I've no intention of going down a rabbit hole with this one, but wondered if there was something I was missing, is all.

[EGDR]

What do people want to say, that they don't feel they can say?

the name of Gibsons bl*** Labrador, has its relevant to the history of the dams raid...

There's a difference between a small piece of information being totally stricken from history and the avoidance of using it where possible due to its severely offensive connotations. Why, exactly, is it so massively important for so many people in here to be able to say the name even when aware of what it means? By refusing to acknowledge its offensiveness in a supposed attempt to 'protect history', are people not ignoring other parts of history, ie those which have lead to it being so offensive?

[plmc135]

So are the Rolling Stones expected to change the words of their hit song "Honky Tonk Woman" as the first word is seen as almost the reverse of the one that seems to be causing problems. Does anyone remember the comedy Love thy Neighbour in which the neighbour was continuously called a "Honky", if they wish to repeat this programme does it need to be edited?

The world has gone mad, what has happened in the past can be discussed but it cannot be altered.