RAF Mildenhall to close. Lakenheath to get F-35 by 2020

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In evidence given by a Senator Tom Cotton to the UK Defence Committee last week, he says in there that he "introduced legislation and halted a planned withdrawal of forces from RAF Mildenhall."

Make of that what you will.

Senator Cotton was the chap in the Huawei story I posted last week, he's known for proposing all kinds of whacky legislation that never gets approved so doesn't see the light of day.

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BNW...I hope you are correct in your assumptions!. However, is it not possible that the new figure of 25,000 actually includes all the personnel transferred from Mildenhall etc?.

The devil is in the detail, the 34,000 troops to 25,000 quote can almost certainly only refer to US Army personnel, not USAF.

While Wikipedia may not always be stunning correct, this paragraph is quite telling:
"Ramstein AB is part of the Kaiserslautern Military Community (KMC), where more than 54,000 American service members and more than 5,400 US civilian employees live and work. U.S. organizations in the KMC also employ the services of more than 6,200 German workers. Air Force units in the KMC alone employ almost 9,800 military members, bringing with them nearly 11,100 family members. There are more than 16,200 military, U.S. civilian and U.S. contractors assigned to Ramstein AB alone. "

[Brave New World]

BNW...I hope you are correct in your assumptions!. However, is it not possible that the new figure of 25,000 actually includes all the personnel transferred from Mildenhall etc?.

According to the US, they often have as many as 50,000 plus personnel in the US due to rotations and other factors, so they are going to struggle with a 25,000 cap without adding further forces transferred from other countries.

Trump is also not going to want anything transferred to Germany.

As for the fighter squadron being moved it will most likely be the F-16's of thr 480th from Spangdahlem, and the future of Spangdahlem may now be uncertain.

The 480th are most likelyto go to Aviano with the rest of the F-16's or even to Poland.

[Brave New World]

BNW...I hope you are correct in your assumptions!. However, is it not possible that the new figure of 25,000 actually includes all the personnel transferred from Mildenhall etc?.

The devil is in the detail, the 34,000 troops to 25,000 quote can almost certainly only refer to US Army personnel, not USAF.

While Wikipedia may not always be stunning correct, this paragraph is quite telling:
"Ramstein AB is part of the Kaiserslautern Military Community (KMC), where more than 54,000 American service members and more than 5,400 US civilian employees live and work. U.S. organizations in the KMC also employ the services of more than 6,200 German workers. Air Force units in the KMC alone employ almost 9,800 military members, bringing with them nearly 11,100 family members. There are more than 16,200 military, U.S. civilian and U.S. contractors assigned to Ramstein AB alone. "

I suggest you look at the number of US Forces in Germany, which has 20,774 US Army personnel, with the 2nd Cavalry being the main front line combat unit, the other being the 173rd Airborne which is mainly in Italy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... nts#Europe

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Interesting, thank you for your more up-to-date numbers.

If Spang closes, then Mildenhall will almost certainly have to remain open. Spang was upgraded in the mid-to-late 2000s to have a large air mobility surge capacity to replace Rhine-Main AB's ability to support large no-notice global mobility needs.

[Brave New World]

Interesting, thank you for your more up-to-date numbers.

If Spang closes, then Mildenhall will almost certainly have to remain open. Spang was upgraded in the mid-to-late 2000s to have a large air mobility surge capacity to replace Rhine-Main AB's ability to support large no-notice global mobility needs.

Exactly.

According to Stars and Stripes the most likely units to move out are 16th Sustainment Brigade which is based in several locations, including Baumholde, and could be moved to Eastern Europe as it mainly now supports the US Army’s expanding mission in Eastern Europe.

The other unit is USAF and the 5,000 military and civiliian personnel of the 52nd Fighter Wing at Spangdahlem AFB which could be moved to either the Lask Air Base or Krzesiny Air Base in Poland according to Stars and Stripes.

This however would not happen before the next US Presidential Election, although should Trump win he will most likely want to continue this policy, and the Dems also want Germany to meet the 2% so might not be to averse to this policy.

So far, there are few details on the precise units that would go, but The New York Times reported that an F-16 squadron and Army “support units” were among those identified.

In Germany, there is only one such squadron — the 480th Fighter Squadron out of Spangdahlem Air Base.

The unit has nearly 30 F-16s and is part of the 52nd Fighter Wing, which includes 5,000 airmen and civilians. It is currently the military’s only squadron in Europe with a “suppression of enemy air defense” mission, though the first U.S. F-35s are supposed to begin arriving at RAF Lakenheath, England in fall 2021.

For nearly 10 years, the Spangdahlem-based unit has carried out missions in Poland as part of the special detachment operating in the central town of Lask. That mission could be beefed up to support a full squadron.

The Pentagon has spent millions in recent years making improvements to the airfield in Lask. The squadron’s F-16s also have operated from Krzesiny Air Base in Poznan, which has emerged as a major overall hub for the U.S. military in Poland.

Still, there are no DOD schools on bases in Poland, which also lack many other quality-of-life amenities on bases in Germany. That could complicate sending large numbers of troops on accompanied tours with their families.

If Army support units move, the main one in Germany is the 16th Sustainment Brigade. It is based in several locations, including Baumholder, a small garrison town that was on and off DOD’s base closure list during the long post-Cold War drawdown.

The unit was uprooted from Bamberg in 2012 when that garrison closed. Since taking up residence in Baumholder, Kaiserslautern and Grafenwoehr, the unit has mainly been on the road in support of the Army’s expanding mission in central and Eastern Europe. Putting the unit and its roughly 2,500 soldiers in Poland would put the force closer to missions it supports in that country, as well as the Baltics.

https://www.stripes.com/how-the-pentago ... d-1.632891

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Thank you for sharing. While that article suggests new news travels fast, I don't see anything implying this wasn't part of a pre-planned shift of US assets from Germany to Poland. I know Trump has no influence on these kinds of decisions despite his claims, nothing in that article suggests anything other than recognition that the new "front line" is Europe's eastern states rather than the Great Plains of Germany.

European USAF fighter bases aren't my area of interest, but reading around suggests Spang is home to a single F-16 squadron? That's got to put it top of the list for closure. Weren't the 352nd SOW meant to be moving to Spang but never did? Kinda makes sense now why they didn't.

[Brave New World]

Thank you for sharing. While that article suggests new news travels fast, I don't see anything implying this wasn't part of a pre-planned shift of US assets from Germany to Poland. I know Trump has no influence on these kinds of decisions despite his claims, nothing in that article suggests anything other than recognition that the new "front line" is Europe's eastern states rather than the Great Plains of Germany.

European USAF fighter bases aren't my area of interest, but reading around suggests Spang is home to a single F-16 squadron? That's got to put it top of the list for closure. Weren't the 352nd SOW meant to be moving to Spang but never did? Kinda makes sense now why they didn't.

I totally agree, and this is partly due to a pre-planned decision, and a move of further assets to Poland and the Baltic region was always on the cards.

I also agree that Spang looks like closing and the planned moved of the 352nd SOW has now been thrown up in to the air, and may be good news for Mildenhall, which is one of the few US alternatives if the Germans ever decided they wanted US forces to leave and Ramstein to close, as US Forces in Germany are not that popular and the current German political coalition government is not popular with the US.

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The only problem they have is if the expansion into Poland and the Baltic region was to be paid for by chopping out Mildenhall's running costs. It could be that Spang is the new cost saving measure if they can't cost effectively close Mildenhall. I still can't believe a whole base exists for one fighter squadron. That's as crazy as paying many millions of dollars to move one TDY aircraft from Mildenhall to Fairford. I guess I've just spotted two problems with the grand plan.

[Reach1985]

The only problem they have is if the expansion into Poland and the Baltic region was to be paid for by chopping out Mildenhall's running costs. It could be that Spang is the new cost saving measure if they can't cost effectively close Mildenhall. I still can't believe a whole base exists for one fighter squadron. That's as crazy as paying many millions of dollars to move one TDY aircraft from Mildenhall to Fairford. I guess I've just spotted two problems with the grand plan.

As I think someone else has said Spang now has a major airlift role & is one of the key staging posts for the US Army in Europe - obviously if this is to be reduced somewhat then this may not be as important. Spang was also due to have some upgrades to support rotational F-22 ops in Europe. There was money to upgrade HAS facilities at the base fo this role however I think this money has now been channeled to building Trumps Mexican border wall. W/ just one, all be it large squadron, of F-16 it does look rather bare considering the 52d used to be one of the largest wings in the airforce.

[Kurnass]

On the other hand, if the F-16’s from Spangdahlem move to Poland, it makes plenty of space available for moving the 352nd to Spangdahlem. Since Mildenhall is a very outdated airbase, and Spangdahlem already seen a lot of modernising going on, that might be an option.

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Indeed, someone is going to have to start spending lots of upgrading Mildenhall soon if they're not careful - ah that was a reason for closing it? Damn. Or, everything at Mildenhall could soon be moved to an empty modern Spang, but that'd mean moving assets to Germany. Damn. All puzzling.

[Reach1985]

Indeed, someone is going to have to start spending lots of upgrading Mildenhall soon if they're not careful - ah that was a reason for closing it? Damn. Or, everything at Mildenhall could soon be moved to an empty modern Spang, but that'd mean moving assets to Germany. Damn. All puzzling.

I think iI'm right in saying that there was some issue w/ the V-22 in Germany. But I can't recall what. The other issue was the low-fly rules & regs in Germany as opposed to the UK. I don't know much about this so I'm happy to be enlightened but it was my understanding that the low-fly system was limited & that this would impact the 352nd who fly a lot of their missions low level.

In the end it will probably come down to not what looks like the best most obvious solution but a political one.

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Some CV-22s went to Spang in September 2016 for "acoustic testing" in readiness for the unit's move from Mildenhall, reading between the lines I suspect the Germans hated the sound of it.
https://www.spangdahlem.af.mil/News/Art ... c-testing/

[filmman]

And now for something completely different, yes low altitude lawn moving is verboten at weekends, etc; even my Bosch shredder was designed to be so ultra quiet it packed up. Yes, the Germans like peace - CV22s you can't be serious! The KC97 replacemen, the KC135 was deported to Mildenhall. Noisy Mildenhall reigns - OK.
Filmman

[f106dart]

On the other hand, if the F-16’s from Spangdahlem move to Poland, it makes plenty of space available for moving the 352nd to Spangdahlem. Since Mildenhall is a very outdated airbase, and Spangdahlem already seen a lot of modernising going on, that might be an option.

Yes Spang only has one squadron the (480th) it's larger than normal AF sqs as it's a super squadron not the normal 18 to 24 airc.raft. Im not sure the total number of aircraft assigned but I do know it's more than the normal aircraft assigned to a unit. Maybe some of the spotters can help me with this?

[WhiskeyMike59]

27 F-16's with 480th FS.
Nr. 28 (91-0340) was lost on October 8th,2019 in a crash

[quid21]

Some CV-22s went to Spang in September 2016 for "acoustic testing" in readiness for the unit's move from Mildenhall, reading between the lines I suspect the Germans hated the sound of it.
https://www.spangdahlem.af.mil/News/Art ... c-testing/

You gotta hope the CV-22 has lots of defensive features since you can hear them coming from miles away!

[Brave New World]

On the other hand, if the F-16’s from Spangdahlem move to Poland, it makes plenty of space available for moving the 352nd to Spangdahlem. Since Mildenhall is a very outdated airbase, and Spangdahlem already seen a lot of modernising going on, that might be an option.

The problem is that Trump wants less forces in Germany, and a cap of 25,000 US Forces is already going to be difficult enough to manage without moving more US Forces to Germany.

There is of course also the possibility that the US will still close Mildenhall and send the 352nd and 100 ARW back home to the US.

The problem is, that once you close such bases and capabilities you are not going to get them back again, and if all that is left in Germany is Ramstein, then the Germans are going to have a lot of political leverage, as Ramstein is very important to the US in terms of global capabilities and they are in the process of building a new $1 Billion military hospital close to the airfield. Can you imagine of Germany did what France did in 1966 and told them to leave.

The French Lyndon Johnson 12 months to get all US forces out of France, in 1966 to which Johnson replied 'does that include the 60,000 US troops buried in France', to which French leader General DeGaulle, clearly embarrassed, walked out and never answered.

I a not sure what the US would do in such circumstances, especially with alternatives such as Mildenhall gone.

“The reason we have troops overseas in Germany is not to protect Germans, everything we have is for our benefit,” said Frederick B. Hodges, a retired lieutenant general and a former top U.S. Army commander in Europe. “The decision doesn’t seem attached to any kind of strategy.”

A cap of 25,000 troops could force an even greater cut in forces in Germany. Troops frequently rotate into the country for exercises, drills and training, said General Hodges, now based in Frankfurt, as a scholar with the Center for European Policy Analysis. If no more than 25,000 are allowed, the number permanently stationed in the country might have to be cut deeper to accommodate those rotations.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/05/worl ... rmany.html

[Spitfire88]

There is no Mention of Mildenhall in any of the articles written, why would the moving of 1 fighter squadron affect Mildenhall ( it wouldn’t) there is no mention of them closing spag either, only moving the fighter sq and an army brigade, I think you guys need to look at the bigger picture, the usaf is trying to save money not spend it, Mildenhall can be easily closed and it’s aircraft moved it has no special features like Lakenheath or Fairford and given the recent pandemic it closure will probably be sped up.