Machloop ban

[Nighthawke]

No rules have been broken by the poster, it wasn't posted on FC it was posted on Twitter and no rules on what you post other than pornography apply.

Just to be clear I was referring to the woman on Twitter but above someone said she knew the rules and was asked to remove the video.

[POL]

But there are no rules for what you can and cannot photograph and post online, if taken from a public footpath or farmer's field, with permission to access, of British military aircraft flying around Britain.

[Mark]

But there are no rules for what you can and cannot photograph and post online, if taken from a public footpath or farmer's field, with permission to access, of British military aircraft flying around Britain.

Correct, but there are Ramifications and repercussion's as seen by the cessation of flights through the loop. If someone gives you sound advise and the reasons why, then follow it and don't ruin it for the rest..

[Thunder]

Agree with Colin. Flying has to be very disciplined, and there is no room for a cavalier attitude to safety these days.

Come on John this is far too much common sense being applied here. Can’t understand for one second how any so called enthusiast fails to see the real issue with that footage. If the pilot hasn’t already voluntarily left/retired from the service, then he deserves to fly a desk for the rest of his career .

I wondered if the amount of interest in the Mach loop between crews and enthusiasts is starting to encourage flamboyant flying practices, where there is a camera people always tend to play to it?

[ChrisCwmbran]

Flying has to be very disciplined, and there is no room for a cavalier attitude to safety these days.

In the sad event of conflict using low level flying skills, will both sides be flying to the same rules, showing due consideration to health and safety?

[Thunder]

But there are no rules for what you can and cannot photograph and post online, if taken from a public footpath or farmer's field, with permission to access, of British military aircraft flying around Britain.

Correct, but there are Ramifications and repercussion's as seen by the cessation of flights through the loop. If someone gives you sound advise and the reasons why, then follow it and don't ruin it for the rest..

The only person that’s ruined it for others is the pilot.

[Mark]

But there are no rules for what you can and cannot photograph and post online, if taken from a public footpath or farmer's field, with permission to access, of British military aircraft flying around Britain.

Correct, but there are Ramifications and repercussion's as seen by the cessation of flights through the loop. If someone gives you sound advise and the reasons why, then follow it and don't ruin it for the rest..

The only person that’s ruined it for others is the pilot.

The 'It's my right' brigade have ruined it for everybody unfortunately and not just in our hobby....

[Harkins]

Just watched the video. I have no idea how low constitutes too low in these training areas. If anything was against the rules surely it was the pull up and roll on departure ?

With all the talk on this I'd like to have seen it too, but I can't seem to come up with the right search criteria to find it via Google. The lady who shot and posted it has privatised her account presumably owing to the abuse I believe she has received. I don't suppose anyone has a link they can post or PM me is there?

[ChrisCwmbran]

This whole thread is a bit confused and mixed up as far as I can see.

The RAF have not been banned from low flying in the Loop. The have temporarily panned their pilots from doing so.

Other air forces are clearly not subject to this ban.

When anyone does anything in a public location they risk the subject of their actions being put into the public domain.

If the person who posted the video was outraged or worried by what they saw they have a right to raise it - whether we like it or not.

However it seems that in the case in question the video was taken and posted by an individual who is or claims to be an aviation enthusiast and the only thing really open to question here is why someone would post a video that might put an end to a practice they were clearly there to enjoy. It would seem that more thought should have been given to the potential ramifications of posting the video.

That said, the loss of a training facility to the RAF (albeit temporarily) is ever so slightly more important than any disappointment the cessation of said flying causes to aviation enthusiasts who wish to view it.

I suspect flying by the RAF in the Loop will resume. Lets hope that those people who go there to enjoy it will think carefully before sharing any footage or photographs of said flights in case of further ramifications.

I've never been to the Loop personally, but the attitude of some individuals in the hobby who seem to think they "own" the Loop puts me off doing so, and this is a sad thing.

[Pune]

As has been said previously, the only person to blame is the pilot, if indeed his flying is the reason for the 'ban', does anyone know this is the reason for sure?

[ChrisCwmbran]

I did watch the video before it was pulled, and it's hard to tell whether he was lower than other aircraft doing the same thing. My guess is that it was if anything the sudden transition into a rolling vertical climb which appears to be nothing more than showing off.

I'm no expert though.

[Supra]

From posts above.
CTC...."I don't think the cogs would have moved that quickly (unless they were in the process of leaving anyway)! "
jem60..."Agree with Colin. Flying has to be very disciplined, and there is no room for a cavalier attitude to safety these days."
Starting to look like more effort by Aircrew to please the hordes of Low-fly spectators, than practice safe-training profiles? With the number of cameras pointing at them, allied to the photographers/videographers desire for fame , it MUST be obvious that although they'll see a shot of their "special day in the office"...so will their superiors?
That kind of reasoning must be assigned to a Last-flight/Career-change? I mean, you'd have to be some kind of 'tard to roll a Vulcan over....say Grantham.

[Thunder]

At times I fail to keep up the pace on this forum. One minute you have the masses calling for enthusiasts behaving like knobs around the various bases to be named and shamed and if possible post their mug shots online for all to see, but if a RAF pilot behaves like a knob in a Welsh valley whilst flying a £50m jet, all evidence and talk of it must be destroyed and heads turned the other way. Strange?

[Blackjack56]

It would be very sad if this pilot's career in the RAF is over after all it was one moment of madness and i'm sure he has been chastised by his CO as i said before,also there is the cost of his training,in the 70's they used to say it took around £3 million and many years to train an RAF Phantom pilot so i can't even imagine the cost to the country(the tax payer) nowadays.

[Thunder]

Then he/she should behave accordingly and utilise said training and not step outside the boundaries. If this incident did spell the end of their flying career then he/she have no one but themselves to blame.

[Blackcat1]

Yes Chris, there's lots of people who think they own the loop, like in a lot of hobbies it can be very clicky.

[Blackcat1]

I remember the good old days where there was a lot more traffic . Seeing the Bwlch & Cad car parks with 1 or 2 cars parked was great! It's far too popular now & other locations in Wales have become far quieter.

[The Phantom]

I remember the good old days where there was a lot more traffic . Seeing the Bwlch & Cad car parks with 1 or 2 cars parked was great! It's far too popular now & other locations in Wales have become far quieter.

That's the ironic thing: when there were up to 60 passes per day in the Cold War years nobody was there (granted because decent cameras weren't readily affordable back then - and were quite a privilege) and only a few locals witnessed it. Now that nothing hardly happens there, it is the busiest it has ever been with car parks overflowing by 8am on summer days or when there are visiting jets at LN - and subsequent problems of police having to come out because of parking along the roadside, etc.

An affect of the internet, facebook, etc, I suppose.

[Blackcat1]

Yes social media has caused some trouble I guess. I live 2 hours away and was also lucky to remember those days. I live near the Brecon Beacons and back in the day it was just as busy or occasionally busier than the loop! I remember during morning break at school and you would see Phantoms or Tornado F3s chasing Harriers through my valley!! Awesome sights. Now if someone sees a few Hawks in the loop, it's described as a good day!

[TomG]

It's a LFA/MTA , push it to the limits, its what makes the RAF the best of the best.

Provided those 'limits' meet the requirements of https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... RA2330.pdf ......