US pausing Military aid to Ukraine

[baz1]

I think he's deliberately trying to shock to make our government do something.... any other suggestions?

Yes, Trump is a shallow narcissist who is only interested in what is in it for himself

and don't forget a Convicted Felon
it's the case of a man without a suit and a suit without a man !?

[Blackcat1]

I think he's deliberately trying to shock to make our government do something.... any other suggestions?

Yes, Trump is a shallow narcissist who is only interested in what is in it for himself

and don't forget a Convicted Felon
it's the case of a man without a suit and a suit without a man !?

Men are on the frontline, they are just 2 bit politicians .

[Col Nago]

“Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers.”
“I like people who weren’t captured.”

Trump loves veterans.

[STN RAMP RAT]

Please don’t let this thread go the way of the Trump thread, the arguments were really well thought through a couple of hours ago and now it’s going downhill.

[Blackcat1]

You have something against me

[Tally-ho]

In an effort to get the conversation back on track, allow me to say this again:-

1. Everybody (US & Europe) agrees that it's time for truce / ceasefire / peace deal in Ukraine.
2. The US have made it clear (since Trump's election) that they will not fund and finance the war indefinitely. What Europe does is their matter.

Now for the juicy bits -
- you cannot arrive at your host's house (The White House) with a bolshie attitude, pushing your begging bowl (wanting a security guarantee) when Billions have already gone into funding your war.
- on the table is a huge investment from the USA to extricate minerals in which you (Ukraine) will benefit from too. Economic aid, American civilian personnel in the country, all leading to the long road of repairing and rebuilding a devastated country.

My advice to Zelensky - repair your relations with Trump and the US Administration ASAP. Mark Rutte (Nato boss) has said the same. The longer Z waits to make amends the worse his situation becomes.

Already the phones have been busy from Downing Street to Zelensky's HQ in Ukraine. The content of the conversation I don't know, but I can assure you it was not about the weather. Pressure is building from many sides on Z to mend relations with Trump. The existence of Ukraine may well depend on it. The death and destruction cannot be sustained by them - Z knows it and he must move quickly.

Without the high-end sophistication of US Patriot missiles to defend against incoming Russian missiles . . . this is where they will feel it first.

Edit: Spelling

[iainpeden]

With the enforced apology from Zelensky today it just goes to show what a "big" man he is: it takes real guts to grovel for the greater good when you know you are totally in the right.

[Tally-ho]

With the enforced apology from Zelensky today it just goes to show what a "big" man he is: it takes real guts to grovel for the greater good when you know you are totally in the right.

There is an old American proverb - "You can be right, and you can be dead right".

[KevinJ]

This so called peace plan by Trump tramples all over zelensky and Ukraine and is just a pact with Putin to carve up the country to get the spoils. It's simply unacceptable to any right thinking person, Zelensky tried to make that point to Trump and the Americans somehow took that as being "bolshie", when we can see who was aggressive here, the hosts are supposed to be polite to their guests. It's clear there's a huge gap in thinking on both sides if the Atlantic now and sadly America cannot be trusted as a allie anymore, crazy this has happened so fast.

[Tally-ho]

This so called peace plan by Trump tramples all over zelensky and Ukraine

No, the plan is not a "so called". It is the only plan on the table.

If you value the future feasibility of Ukraine as a country, you need to understand the nuances and pitfalls of politics on the international stage. I have twice now given a very short summary of 'politics' when you deal with the President of the world's only Superpower. Zelensky came to understand that at great personal cost.

[Uncle Sam]

There is nothing for Ukraine to gain by signing away their mineral rights to the US.
What’s stopping Trump and Putin to agree on a deal for Russia to take them?
And as for security guarantees, isn’t that what the 1994 nuclear disarmament agreement was for? That is worthless.
I wouldn’t trust this US administration as far as I could throw them.
We need peace - but not at any price. Russia needs to compromise more than Ukraine. All we’ve seen so far is Ukraine being the one that has to make compromises.
The collective West - bar the US, needs to make a clear statement to the US administration they are doing severe harm to Ukraine and the entire collective West by going down the route they’re taking.
Maybe people should have a word in Trump’s ear about how much the US and its defence industry relies on their allies. If they all boycotted US companies the CEO’s of these companies wouldn’t take long to complain to Trump.

[Tally-ho]

There is nothing for Ukraine to gain by signing away their mineral rights to the US.

It is a business deal benefitting both sides.

And as for security guarantees, isn’t that what the 1994 nuclear disarmament agreement was for? That is worthless.

Go read the hugely complicated story on that; Google is your friend. There are many angles to this, all will need your scrutiny.

If they all boycotted US companies . . .

Dream on.

[Hurn]

There is nothing for Ukraine to gain by signing away their mineral rights to the US.
What’s stopping Trump and Putin to agree on a deal for Russia to take them?
And as for security guarantees, isn’t that what the 1994 nuclear disarmament agreement was for? That is worthless.
I wouldn’t trust this US administration as far as I could throw them.
We need peace - but not at any price. Russia needs to compromise more than Ukraine. All we’ve seen so far is Ukraine being the one that has to make compromises.
The collective West - bar the US, needs to make a clear statement to the US administration they are doing severe harm to Ukraine and the entire collective West by going down the route they’re taking.
Maybe people should have a word in Trump’s ear about how much the US and its defence industry relies on their allies. If they all boycotted US companies the CEO’s of these companies wouldn’t take long to complain to Trump.

The West have had three years to come up with a peace plan and have failed to do so. Instead they've been doing what they've done for the past 20 odd years and just keep the wars rolling along.

At least the US wants a peace deal, because up to now it's been business as usual from the West. Look at how desperate Starmer and his cronies have been trying to get in on a peace deal, when they've been happy for the status quo to continue until now.

[KevinJ]

Then it isn't a plan at all, it's an ultimatum. Russia have said America is now in line with their foreign policy, what does that tell you from a leader who kills his opponents and a British citizen on UK soil with novachoc, his word cannot be trusted. I'm sorry but you cannot deal with tyrants like Putin, you can only show strength and push him out of Ukraine by force, or force Ukraine to concede territory without any guarantees Putin won't rearm and come back, that's why he wants a guarantee from the US, not unreasonable at all.

[Tally-ho]

"US pausing Military aid to Ukraine" is the subject under discussion . . .
. . . how interesting to note that all of a sudden, out of the blue like a thunderbolt, the EU finds £650 Billion (yes Billion Sterling) to fund and upgrade military preparedness!

- Where was all that money when Putin invaded in 2022?
- Where was all that money when Putin grabbed the Crimea in 2014?

The President of the USA has certainly moved that unmoveable thing called the EU. He has focussed minds and got the 'grey matter' between the ears working.

[slogen51]

Manafort, Trump , Russia and Ukraine have a history

Paul John Manafort Jr is an interesting character - he lobbied on behalf of pro Russia former Ukraine president Viktor Yanukovych ( former Russian politician and President of Ukraine from 2010 - 2014 and now resides in Russia in exile from Ukraine). Yanukovych was influenced by Russian authorities ( Putin) to not sign the Ukrainian letter of association with the EU

So from Wiki : Manafort was Campaign Manager for Donald Trump in 2016

'Paul John Manafort Jr. is an American former lobbyist, political consultant, and attorney. A long-time Republican Party campaign consultant, he chaired the Trump presidential campaign from June to August 2016.

On October 27, 2017, Manafort and his business associate Rick Gates were indicted in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia on multiple charges arising from his consulting work for the pro-Russian government of Viktor Yanukovych in Ukraine before Yanukovych's overthrow in 2014

Murky waters

[James Cutting]

It seems to be forgotten that Russia were the ones who invaded Ukraine in the first place, playing the nasty Dictatorship that they are. And now, the US are handing them the victory. It’s a scary world.

It’s like having the big bully across the street pick on the youngster next door, expecting an easy win, only for the youngster to kick back and get support from his neighbours - but then one set of neighbours from a few streets away who have been the biggest supporters suddenly say “No, this is on you, you fix it, you bought this upon yourself”. IMO it’s just crazy.

Also we must remember the Russian’s support into Trump’s businesses in the past and has often helped them from failing (info is easily available on Google) so sure that Putin has him in his pocket, right where he wants him

[Hurn]

Zelenskyy's statement.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy / Володимир Зеленський
@ZelenskyyUa

I would like to reiterate Ukraine’s commitment to peace.

None of us wants an endless war. Ukraine is ready to come to the negotiating table as soon as possible to bring lasting peace closer. Nobody wants peace more than Ukrainians. My team and I stand ready to work under President Trump’s strong leadership to get a peace that lasts.

We are ready to work fast to end the war, and the first stages could be the release of prisoners and truce in the sky — ban on missiles, long-ranged drones, bombs on energy and other civilian infrastructure — and truce in the sea immediately, if Russia will do the same. Then we want to move very fast through all next stages and to work with the US to agree a strong final deal.

We do really value how much America has done to help Ukraine maintain its sovereignty and independence. And we remember the moment when things changed when President Trump provided Ukraine with Javelins. We are grateful for this.

Our meeting in Washington, at the White House on Friday, did not go the way it was supposed to be. It is regrettable that it happened this way. It is time to make things right. We would like future cooperation and communication to be constructive.

Regarding the agreement on minerals and security, Ukraine is ready to sign it in any time and in any convenient format. We see this agreement as a step toward greater security and solid security guarantees, and I truly hope it will work effectively.

[James Cutting]

“If Russia do the same”. Yeah that’s a big ask for them really. Why would they stop? What’s in any of it for them? Closer ties to the US?

[James Cutting]

I note that Trump’s botox injected pet chihuahua is getting flak for stating that the UK is ‘a random country that hasn’t fought in a war for 30 or 40 years’.

That kind of says it all really.

Wrong. Nowhere does he mention country names.

France and the UK are the only 2 countries to pledge peacekeeping troops to Ukraine, if he wasn't talking about them then who was it genius?

Exactly. It’s pretty obvious who he was referring to in his “speech”. Clearly doesn’t recall the sacrifice of the British soldiers in recent wars. You’d have hoped someone as patriotic as “Tally-ho” to both the US & UK would be pretty shocked by such a comment.