Tempest to fly faster than the speed of sound

[verreli]

The second one is closer to the configuration they will be working towards, note the similarities to Japan's F-X/F-3 configurations.

Both the above configurations are very similar. Sure, the second has a much revised nose that looks F-X / F-22 esq. The technology though resembles 5th gen and given these aircraft won't be in service for another decade it suggests we're about two to three decades behind the state of the art. I hope they keep working on it...

[birdieb]

The second one is closer to the configuration they will be working towards, note the similarities to Japan's F-X/F-3 configurations.

Both the above configurations are very similar. Sure, the second has a much revised nose that looks F-X / F-22 esq. The technology though resembles 5th gen and given these aircraft won't be in service for another decade it suggests we're about two to three decades behind the state of the art. I hope they keep working on it...

B-21 looks a lot like a small B-2... not sure you can draw the conclusions you are about tech and stealth from looks alone.

[verreli]

B-21 looks a lot like a small B-2... not sure you can draw the conclusions you are about tech and stealth from looks alone.

Superficially yes, but there are differences. At this stage only those working on the products will have any knowledge and none of those will be posting on an open forum like this. What you can say though is that with each generation there's been a step change in capability and this is reflected in the configuration and associated technology. That Tempest resembles 5th gen suggests 5th gen capability, perhaps with an added fancy cockpit and swarming / remote capability. But maybe that's what they want us to think right now and the special project boys at Warton have something special on the drawing board. I'd just be very disappointed if Tempest ends up looking like the official pictures, not least because the boys and girls who eventually fly them in the RAF will have something less capable than a potential enemy. What do they say? No points for second place...

This is what the Chinese are currently publishing. You can bet that what they're actually working on will be extremely capable.

[birdieb]

B-21 looks a lot like a small B-2... not sure you can draw the conclusions you are about tech and stealth from looks alone.

Superficially yes, but there are differences. At this stage only those working on the products will have any knowledge and none of those will be posting on an open forum like this. What you can say though is that with each generation there's been a step change in capability and this is reflected in the configuration and associated technology. That Tempest resembles 5th gen suggests 5th gen capability, perhaps with an added fancy cockpit and swarming / remote capability. But maybe that's what they want us to think right now and the special project boys at Warton have something special on the drawing board. I'd just be very disappointed if Tempest ends up looking like the official pictures, not least because the boys and girls who eventually fly them in the RAF will have something less capable than a potential enemy. What do they say? No points for second place...

This is what the Chinese are currently publishing. You can bet that what they're actually working on will be extremely capable.

Exactly, superficially Tempest may look 5th gen... superficially B-21 looks a lot like a small B-2 but it clearly isn't if they consider it 6th gen. I don't think you should be judging how capable it would be on how it looks in the first place, but I'd be shocked if it looks like the pictures at this stage.

[gyvespa]

Hurricane, Typhoon, Tempest, Tornado, etc
All named after types of wind.

The Japanese have a word that I can’t quite recall, it means ‘Divine Wind’ I think.
Perhaps someone could look it up so we can use it.
Tongue firmly in cheek.
Seasons greetings everyone.

[EGDR]

B-21 looks a lot like a small B-2... not sure you can draw the conclusions you are about tech and stealth from looks alone.

That Tempest resembles 5th gen suggests 5th gen capability, perhaps with an added fancy cockpit and swarming / remote capability.

That is basically the selling point of sixth gen fighters.

That being said, of course, the fighter 'generations' have always been a mess (have a look at gen 4/gen 4.5/gen 4.5+) because at their heart they are buzzwords for marketing, not anything that is absolutely set in stone.

[verreli]

Exactly, superficially Tempest may look 5th gen... superficially B-21 looks a lot like a small B-2 but it clearly isn't if they consider it 6th gen. I don't think you should be judging how capable it would be on how it looks in the first place, but I'd be shocked if it looks like the pictures at this stage.

That's a good point but you can tell a lot from its configuration. All aircraft design is a compromise and the configuration shows what the design emphasis has been. That Raider looks the similar to the B-2 is no surprise. It has a high aspect ratio blended wing body with no fin. That's a result of emphasis on radar stealth and need for range but even in this area the intakes on Raider have been recessed to further reduce its profile and that's before the latest RAM is used. The good stuff and biggest design changes on Raider are at the back though i.e. where the big hot bit is. That's why they haven't shown it yet but my guess is there's some form of IR shielding or at least ambient mixing going on.

With the NGAD concepts released to date you can see that pure manoeuvrability is being sacrificed for stealth but a low aspect ratio with LERX is no surprise. My guess also is that the control surfaces won't be sufficient for combat manoeuvrability so next gen thrust vectoring will be part of the design along with a more fighter focussed form of IR shielding. It will still need afterburner for pure thrust performance but loiter or insertion tasking needs to minimise signatures. In this regard 5th gen is a bit clumsy so easily detected, even for radar if you're looking from the right direction - and with networked and remote systems there's always a right direction.

One thing I did notice on the Chinese model is that it doesn't seem to have an obvious radar in the nose. Maybe that's because it's a model but it should be no surprise because a big flat surface behind a radar transparent nose isn't the best for stealth. Instead, with active electronically scanned array systems, why not integrate the radar onto surface panels around the aircraft and beam steer? You can have full 360 degree radar coverage that way.

Lots can be learnt from configuration. The CG location can be identified by the main undercarriage location which tells you how longitudinally statically stable the aircraft is. Aspect ratio plays a big part in turn performance. Volume gives clues to engine efficiency, fuel capacity and thus combat range. etc etc etc

[quid21]

B-21 looks a lot like a small B-2... not sure you can draw the conclusions you are about tech and stealth from looks alone.

This is what the Chinese are currently publishing. You can bet that what they're actually working on will be extremely capable.

Tiny jet engines! Perhaps a medium bomber rather than 6th gen fighter?? Who knows, but the engines look small to me.

[XR221]

Hurricane, Typhoon, Tempest, Tornado, etc
All named after types of wind.

The Japanese have a word that I can’t quite recall, it means ‘Divine Wind’ I think.
Perhaps someone could look it up so we can use it.
Tongue firmly in cheek.
Seasons greetings everyone.

You're thinking of 'Kamikaze'. As it'll be a military stealth aircraft maybe it should be called 'CamoKhazi' in British service?

[Supra]

Surely 'CamoKhazi' has already been used as a nickname for the Combat Ready Air Portable Proper-Emergency Restroom in the UK. Military?