Scampton Viewing - news.

[RedsSnapper]

Hearing reports this morning that the farmer has put up a large metal double-gate at the "Point K" field access. Remains to be seen whether this is just while the Reds are away, and at a time when he may want his crops protected, or whether this will stay closed in the future. Also remains to see if it DOES stay closed whether he'll still be happy with people accessing on foot to walk up the track and along the fenceline to view, I imagine.

Won't trouble us much for a while anyway as the team are now away heading for Cyprus.

[C24]

I am not surprised. When I took the Hunter images there had been eighteen cars parked in the field around the lights and he had to ask people to move so that he could operate the sprayer. He was not happy.

[RedsSnapper]

There now seems to be rumours that he has said he will prosecute anyone found on the field. How exactly he intends to do that is a good question, but rather as with Point C, it now looks like this will become a "handle with care and if asked to leave, do so immediately" spot. The pictures I have seen of the gates show a set of gates and fence - closing off the access to the track completely. Whether the access at the other end of the hedge is still viable I have no idea. Alternative parking spots will need using, however.

[reheat module]

Seems like another prime viewpoint is being restricted?

[RedsSnapper]

Problem is, the majority of the "prime viewpoints" are on land owned by others, thus we're at their mercy. It only takes one person to - when asked to move their car, for example - kick up a stink, and the landowners will, quite understandably, decide allowing us access is more hassle than it is worth.

[baz1]

I may be wrong on this but i'm sure if the public have been across land for 5yrs it then becomes a public right of way?
correct me if i'm wrong

[C24]

I may be wrong on this but i'm sure if the public have been across land for 5yrs it then becomes a public right of way?
correct me if i'm wrong

I'm not certain but it seems unlikely as most of the land is owned by the people who influence the lawmakers and neither groups would want public access to happen. Ramblers have been trying similar moves for 100 years and still only limited access is available on moorland etc.

[baz1]

I seem to recall... that if the public for instance' lets say had been taking a short cut across your garden for access to somewere for at least 5yrs without anyone stopping them, it then becomes public right of way!?

[rh226]

To settle the issue on when a path becomes a right of way, this is taken from http://www.ramblers.org.uk/go-walking/t ... y-law.aspx. Please note the phrases highlighted in red (by myself).

In legal theory most paths become rights of way because the owner “dedicates” them to public use. In fact very few paths have been formally dedicated, but the law assumes that if the public uses a path without interference for some period of time – set by statute at 20 years - then the owner had intended to dedicate it as a right of way. - See more at: http://www.ramblers.org.uk/go-walking/t ... rDa0c.dpuf

"Interference" includes the land manager asking people to leave. It does not have to be a formal written notice - it can be a verbal request.

Equally, there are paths dedicated as "permissive" rather than public. They are often signed as such. These are ones where, essentially, the land owner has decided to allow access to the public for most of the time, but retains the right to use the land for his own purposes on occasions. The land owner can shut these paths without notice within certain limitations.

Remember that motorised vehicles can only be used on BOATs (Byeways Open to All Traffic). You are not allowed to use them on a RUPP (Road Used as Public Path) and certainly not on other types of Bridleways or Paths. It is a motoring offence if you do.


Sadly, too many spotters and toggers these days assume that they have a right to go wherever they want in order to achieve their end purpose (that perfectly angled photograph or that better position to read a serial). To this end they arrogantly usurp other people's property and are quite two-faced about it. Would they react the same way as the landowners do if someone were to just drive up to their house and park on their beautifully manicured front lawn - because it was a convenient place to park? Of course they would - they would blow a fuse (at least).

My own personal spotting experience during the late 70s/early 80s was to ask permission if at all possible - if there was no public/permissive path available. However, that was rare. Usually we got a favourable response, but in all cases we got "at least you asked, thank you" tacked on to the permission (or denial).

[baz1]

thanks for that Bob.. I knew I had read something many years ago about rights of way that's cleared that up nicely

regards

Baz

[Nighthawke]

To all the arrogant, couldn't-give-a-toss, I'll-go-where-I-want types, thanks you very much (NOT!). You've ruined (and will probably continue to ruin elsewhere, the many years of enjoyment for those who do care and are polite and courteous to land owners. As has been inferred already maybe a farmer's tractor on your drive/lawn might change your attitude (I doubt i but you never know).

Rant over (for now)

[redhead]

I'm in total agreement with you Nightawke I think these so called enthusiast are going to spoil it yet again.

[deerhunter]

I'm in total agreement with you Nightawke I think these so called enthusiast are going to spoil it yet again.

Hear, Hear

[redhead]

it's good to see there are still the proper enthusiast on hear like myself, deerhunter and nighthawke

[flyingslug_0]

What a shame the loose is being tightened. I must admit in the past I have taken my car right up to the crash gate but never under the lights!! I was there just before the Reds went to Cyprus and was amazed that people park under the lights. Its not surprising the farmer has called it a day. When you consider there is a good parking spot no more than 100 yards past the entrance. I was looking forward to seeing the Reds return, considering its the team's 50th year I fear a lot of unhappy people could be found around Scampton this year.

[RedsSnapper]

Well lets wait and see what happens. It may be that it's the driving on that's the problem, and that the landowner will be happy with people on foot. In any event, some responsibility will be required, I think, particularly in relation to keeping to fencelines/paths, and not trampling/walking through crops, and leaving if asked to do so. Sadly I suspect there will continue to be some who don't observe these courtesies, in which case almost certainly the landowner will just take the "get orf my land" approach to anyone he sees.

[Andy_99]

Yet another case of the sheer arrogance of some people spoiling it for all.

Never been to Scampton but I can imagine it's pretty popular.

To all those that have spoilt it for others, see those 2 things attached to your body just below the waist - well funnily enough these are what normal people use to move themselves around this earth, that 4 wheel box was developed far after the invention of legs. If you can't park your car in the spot where you wish to spot from please use aforementioned legs to propel yourself from a safe parking space (100m wasn't it) to your chosen viewing point.

I know there are some people less able to walk from parking spots to viewing spots but I would assume these are in the minority.

Rant over

I've seen lots of issues with the SPTA lately as well so not just limited to airfields

[Doughnut]

Expect the main problem with Scampton has nothing to do with Spotters or aircraft enthusiats. Much more to do the the general public who, having seen the Red Arrows in the sky over Scampton, stop and let their children, dogs, ect run around until they get bored, have a pee in the hedges and drive home, leaving fag ends and litter behind them. Next day the farmer finds crops damages, dog **** and litter all over the place. The only way to resolve the issue is to fence of and gate his property.

[reheat module]

There's been a few weeks to let this issue settle whilst RAFAT have been away, it'll be interesting to see what develops on their return at the month end.

[C24]

I will send in a report later this week.