unidentified

[crashman]

The F22's were due to visit connigsby dont know if they did ? what about Mantis UCAV ?

[RichC]

UAV's are strictly not allowed to fly outside their restricted airspace, of which not much is open to them in the UK overland at the moment. (bit round sennybridge, aberporth off the coast and north sea). A new area near Boscombe is to open, it hasn't yet i believe for the Watchkeeper.

Mantis or any other type of UAV are simply not allowed to fly in our airspace, hence why all the testing takes place in Australia out of the way of air traffic.

[robbo]

just found on tinternet.
MI, July 4, 2010 - The craft was movig from SE to NE at about 250 knots. MUFON Case # 24725.
On July 4th night at 10:30 pm my buddy (Ron L.)and I were watching the neughbor kids shooting off roman candles about 20 ft. in the air from my backyard.

We were looking skyward and saw a triangle (equilateral) craft moving from SE to NE and we lost sight after it passed the houses nearby. We had low cieling clouds
at about 8000 to 9000 ft. We could see the outline of the craft against the clouds because the city lights illuminated the clouds.

The craft was black, if there were no clouds one could not see the shape.

It also had a large golden light in the middle with 2 smaller gold colored lights toward the rear. There was no sound no red or green navigation lights and no navigation strobe. I estimated the speed from when I used to watch jets land at San Francisco airport.

Thier approach speed was about 250 knots. That night I could not sleep after seeing it. I am retired from Lockheed and worked on a lot of classified projects and never saw anything like that.

[HighlandSniper]

[x-files music] [/x-files music]

[Velvet Glove]

Who knows. ~ Maybe we should form a FC UFO investigation team!

I'll volunteer if I get to use my flash light, .. hee hee.

On a more serious note, some things are in development for years without Jo Public knowing, and the MoD / DoD will actively encourage 'UFO' speculation if it keeps us off track.

Here's some starters if you want some reading (I was thinking TR-3B)

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&source=h ... 379c6dbdc9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.urbanghostsmedia.com/2010/03 ... not-exist/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.greatdreams.com/ufos/Triangle-ufos.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.dcodereport.com/black_triangle_ufo.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[robbo]

No Probs Oasis, did you see my post about Weird object over Litleport, see below

Hi FCers
My daughter has just phoned
Me to say theirs a weird shaped
Object flying around littleport
Changing Colours flying off fast
Heading to Ely then comes back
Stops changes colour and heads off again
Can't hear any noise from it
Her camera isn't good enough
To get picture,any ideas



My daughter has googled it and someone saw the same thing a month ago
and very strange someone reported seeing it on the same date back in 2006 spooky

[RichC]

Hey guys, thanks very much for the input. Im kinda guessing its something mil, but very strange. My friend and i both did aircraft recce in the forces, and if he didnt i.d it then it certainly wasnt a hawk or raptor. Im not quite ready for the signature tune of the x files yet, but it just makes you think if they had the sr71 (yf12 i think) in the 60s and have blue (f117a) in the late 70s/ early 80s what have they got now? We didnt even know about the nighthawk (officially) until 1991. Thanks robbo for lettin me know my mate isnt nuts lol. And thanks everyone else. Great forum guys. Oasis I welcome anymore comments.

And then think to yourself, why would they be operating over the UK in full view of everyone and over military airfields where people congregate with cameras and yet again we have no photographic evidence of any of these events.

Every single time we do get evidence of anything like a mystery plane or UFO, it's blurry and can't be identified. With todays technology and camera technology we still seem to be seeing blurry dots and nothing else or testimonials with no photo/video evidence either.

If mystery craft were being "tested" over the UK in controlled airspace i suppose we would have heard about it by now....

[magnum]

I seem to remember a thread about something similar, at Yeovilton last month. As you say though Rich, it is strange nobody ever seems able to obtain a good pic.

[robbo]

A lot of these sightings happen at night,wouldn't have
Thought many people carry a camera at night just in
Case they see ufo

[RichC]

Most of these sightings are from the home/garden and most people have some kind of optics in their house do they not? Mobile phones with good m/pixels also?

And some of these sightings over a major US airbase?

Carry on folks... i'll sit back and enjoy the thread!

[graham luxton]

This reminds me of the so called "Aurora" sighting back in the early 1980's, when a black triangular aircraft was seen over the North Sea tucked in behind a KC-135 being "escorted" by two F-111's.
What was it? Probably just another F-111 with its wings fully swept because someone on the tanker wanted some pictures! If Aurora ever existed as an aircraft it is frankly beyond belief that it would be in UK airspace in the circumstances that were described at the time.

In this latest case is it plauseable that an undisclosed type would be operating from or over a country infested with aviation enthusiasts? Perhaps there's some wishful thinking going on here!
Graham.

[sjnovis]

I was mistaken fairly recently, it was when the Vulcan was air testing a month or two ago, it was reported to be in and around Oxfordshire (I think it did a couple of practace dispalys at Kemble) and was expected to go back to Brize.
Anyway, I was driving home, and stopped at a veiwing spot, approx 8 miles south of Brize Norton. There it was, the unmistakeable delta wing shape of the Vulcan, in the circuit at Brize, - woo-hoo. As I watched it in the turn, the unmistakeable shape of the Vulcan transformed into a VC-10.
I guess due to the distance, the light and the angle I was veiwing from the swept wings and the T tail of the VC-10 had mergered to form a delta wing.
I guess also, I stopped in that spot on the off chance of seeing the Vulcan, and that is what my mind gave me.

[RichC]

This reminds me of the so called "Aurora" sighting back in the early 1980's, when a black triangular aircraft was seen over the North Sea tucked in behind a KC-135 being "escorted" by two F-111's.
What was it? Probably just another F-111 with its wings fully swept because someone on the tanker wanted some pictures! If Aurora ever existed as an aircraft it is frankly beyond belief that it would be in UK airspace in the circumstances that were described at the time.

In this latest case is it plauseable that an undisclosed type would be operating from or over a country infested with aviation enthusiasts? Perhaps there's some wishful thinking going on here!
Graham.

The chap who supposedly took the photo gave up in the end and confirmed it was a hoax photo quite a few years ago. And described how he did it.

[garyscott]

The chap who supposedly took the photo gave up in the end and confirmed it was a hoax photo quite a few years ago. And described how he did it.

I remember that! Lol. On a serious note though, it is amazing that nothing concrete has been caught on camera etc. EVERYONE has thier mobile phone close to hand (my wifes is welded to her) and all but the most ancient have a camera with reasonable megapixels, so its surprising that nothing has come up that way, and you would be surprised how many of us have (for instance) a DSLR close to hand ready for any quick Mil flypast shots over our respective locations, so the ability to capture a decent pic is there, the only thing lacking in my opinion is the supposed subject matter. But i could be wrong.

[flarkey]

Hmm, black triangles near Grimbsy. Hmmm, not far from the Brough facility. yes I know it could be a hawk, but...

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/ ... umber.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/357225- ... -farm.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[vix]

The chap who supposedly took the photo gave up in the end and confirmed it was a hoax photo quite a few years ago. And described how he did it.

I remember that! Lol. On a serious note though, it is amazing that nothing concrete has been caught on camera etc. EVERYONE has thier mobile phone close to hand (my wifes is welded to her) and all but the most ancient have a camera with reasonable megapixels, so its surprising that nothing has come up that way, and you would be surprised how many of us have (for instance) a DSLR close to hand ready for any quick Mil flypast shots over our respective locations, so the ability to capture a decent pic is there, the only thing lacking in my opinion is the supposed subject matter. But i could be wrong.

but THEY KNOW who has cameras in their living rooms, or backs of their cars and stay away, targetting only those who grasp quickly for a low MP phone camera and shake wildly whilst attempting to capture it

[T_J]

This reminds me of the so called "Aurora" sighting back in the early 1980's, when a black triangular aircraft was seen over the North Sea tucked in behind a KC-135 being "escorted" by two F-111's.
What was it? Probably just another F-111 with its wings fully swept because someone on the tanker wanted some pictures! If Aurora ever existed as an aircraft it is frankly beyond belief that it would be in UK airspace in the circumstances that were described at the time.

In this latest case is it plauseable that an undisclosed type would be operating from or over a country infested with aviation enthusiasts? Perhaps there's some wishful thinking going on here!
Graham.

The chap who supposedly took the photo gave up in the end and confirmed it was a hoax photo quite a few years ago. And described how he did it.

Bill Rose produced that image. It appeared in the October 1995 issue of Astronomy Now (UK). Bill Rose captioned the image 'A simulation of the refuelling of the top secret 'Aurora'. It was meant to depict the formation that Chris Gibson saw over the North Sea. Ever since then this image, and other compositions he has created, have been exploited as real images.

Direct link to the Bill Rose image.

http://www.testpilots.ru/tp/usa/other/a ... a_fake.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ref the North Sea sighting back in 1989. I served with Chris in the Royal Observer Corps before I joined the RAF. Chris was an expert in aircraft recognition. Although the ROC aircraft recogniton reporting role had long since gone by the 1980s the interest within the Corps was still strong. Trials were conducted in the early 1980s with the RAF Regiment Rapier Teams where ROC members were assigned in support.

Instant recognition was second nature to Chris and the training was conducted on flash trainers where the image would appear for extremely brief periods. Half second and even quicker were used in training. The nearest in shape that Chris could come up with was the Handley Page HP115. It gives you some impression of how much wing sweep Chris estimated that this unidentified aircraft had. Chris did consider the F-111 swept wing theory, but it simply didn't sit right with size. The triangle shape was too long.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handley_Page_HP.115" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chris explaining what he saw on the following video.

'1989 North Sea Aurora sighting - interview with Chris Gibson'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ptBxwuUh7Q" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The MoD declassified working papers are quite interesting. Of note is the two western covert aircraft types (text and images) that have been edited out in the section covering 'Black' and other Aircraft as Unidentified Aerial Phenomena. The B-2, F-117 and F-22 are all openly discussed in the documents. The papers were produced by the Defence Intelligence Staff (DIS) in 2000 and were originally classified "SECRET UK eyes only"

These two undisclosed western types were obviously known by the MoD to be operating in UK airspace. Is one of the edited out types the aircraft that Chris Gibson saw in 1989?

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/6A30B96E ... 76to90.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/EDAB29D1 ... 1to105.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

'Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) in the UK Air Defence Region'

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/Freed ... Region.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wiki image of part of the document snippet. Full documents can be found on the PDF links posted.



TJ

[benyboy]

Hmm, black triangles near Grimbsy. Hmmm, not far from the Brough facility. yes I know it could be a hawk, but...

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/ ... umber.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/357225- ... -farm.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

.....or their F-35

Ben

[graham luxton]

The MoD declassified working papers are quite interesting. Of note is the two western covert aircraft types (text and images) that have been edited out in the section covering 'Black' and other Aircraft as Unidentified Aerial Phenomena. The B-2, F-117 and F-22 are all openly discussed in the documents. The papers were produced by the Defence Intelligence Staff (DIS) in 2000 and were originally classified "SECRET UK eyes only"

These two undisclosed western types were obviously known by the MoD to be operating in UK airspace. Is one of the edited out types the aircraft that Chris Gibson saw in 1989?

Thanks for all that TJ - made interesting reading.
I think the undisclosed types above were the U-2 and RC-135!

When I saw Chris describe what he'd seen I immediately thought this was a routine air refueling of three F-111's with one in the fully swept wing configuration. This, I suggest,comes very close to the wing shape of the HP115 you mentioned particularly when it would have been viewed from a distance of approximately three miles below the a/r areas used by fighters.

The concept of two F-111's flying in formation with a KC-135 and a "classified" aircraft type is something I find very hard to believe. What makes it even more unbelieveable is that this happened in daylight! Considering the lengths that the DoD goes to in order to conceal Black Projects is it likely that two F-111 crews would have had clearance to even to see such an aircraft let alone fly in formation with it? I think not.
Also, forty years of experience of working in various Air Traffic Control units tells me this event would be highly unlikely. During that time I've flown many times on KC-135's including missions over the North Sea refueling F-111's. During these trips I've asked F-111 pilots if they would fully sweep the wings for photography. Only a few agreed to do this,the rest turning down the request due to weight considerations.As this was not part of the a/r procedure pilots that agreed to this descended to a lower level and dropped further behind the tanker for safety reasons and this is what I think Chris saw.

Graham.

[T_J]

Thanks for all that TJ - made interesting reading.
I think the undisclosed types above were the U-2 and RC-135!

When I saw Chris describe what he'd seen I immediately thought this was a routine air refueling of three F-111's with one in the fully swept wing configuration. This, I suggest,comes very close to the wing shape of the HP115 you mentioned particularly when it would have been viewed from a distance of approximately three miles below the a/r areas used by fighters.

The concept of two F-111's flying in formation with a KC-135 and a "classified" aircraft type is something I find very hard to believe. What makes it even more unbelieveable is that this happened in daylight! Considering the lengths that the DoD goes to in order to conceal Black Projects is it likely that two F-111 crews would have had clearance to even to see such an aircraft let alone fly in formation with it? I think not.
Also, forty years of experience of working in various Air Traffic Control units tells me this event would be highly unlikely. During that time I've flown many times on KC-135's including missions over the North Sea refueling F-111's. During these trips I've asked F-111 pilots if they would fully sweep the wings for photography. Only a few agreed to do this,the rest turning down the request due to weight considerations.As this was not part of the a/r procedure pilots that agreed to this descended to a lower level and dropped further behind the tanker for safety reasons and this is what I think Chris saw.

Graham.

Hi Graham,

No problem. Thanks for the reply. Interesting analysis. I can see where you are coming from in regards to the two types censored from the DIS report. In hindsight it does make sense. The MOD and UK Government have never been forthcoming on the the U-2/TR-1 deployments/basing over the years. I suppose if they are that anal about it despite US declassification then they could extend it to the RC-135? Obviously by 2000 when the report was compiled the SR-71 had been retired for a few years.

I can agree with the U-2, but IMHO feel that the RC-135 is stretching things a bit. The description of the the Figures 1 to 9 states that certain aspects of these vehicles may be described as 'saucer like'. The U-2 obviously with the pods on the spine, but not the RC-135 with its obvious similarity to 707/717, KC-135 etc.

I find it hard to believe that Chris would make such a basic aircraft recognition error. Chris does say that he considered the F-111 with fully swept wings, but dismissed it. To Chris it just didn't sit right. Here was an aircraft recognition expert presented with a sitter, but he couldn't identify it.

Was the classified aircraft suffering some sort of technical difficulty? Possibly requiring fuel and directed to the tanker? It wouldn't be the first time that Aircrew outside a programme have witnessed covert aircraft and have had to be de-briefed. F-15 pilots are on record as having witnessed F-117/Have Blue under testing and have had to be de-briefed. The same went for an RAF exchange pilot on F-105s having to be debriefed after diverting and witnessing the then undisclosed Blackbird (A-11/12 variant).

It could very well be exactly as you have described. Who knows what will be declassified in years to come?

I've always had my doubts about the Boscombe Down incident back in 1994. It makes a great story, but is it just a mix-up of events, mis-identification and a jumble of theories all in error?

http://www.dreamlandresort.com/black_pr ... scombe.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TJ