Save Leuchars........!!!!!!!!!

[lazybinman]

Post Office / chemist, Take away, Spar, 2 pubs and the most important..........Freds Cafe. Dont know if they will really be affected. People will still be living in the Village, even if the RAF close the airfield.

Some of the old Married Quarters in Warwick Close have been sold off to a housing association, and people have been moved into them. They still shop in the village.

[Leuchars Fan]

Somebody should suggest R.A.F. Abbotsinch for closure. See how much the bean counters are aware of what is and what isn't!

LF

[Unknown74]

Quick get the hounds out there's a Fox to hunt. If Leuchars isn't going to be around in 2 years then that's one less vote the ConDem lot can count on. Disgusting.

[ukmil]

Today my dad was speaking to the wife of an RAF guy who has just been promoted, he asked to get posted to Leuchars and was told in no uncertain terms that Leuchars won`t be around in two years time.

I love these things, just so happens, I was talking to the cleaner's cat's mothers son's daughter, and they said Scotland would be under water by Friday!


Seriously, NO ONE yet knows, FACT, just wait and see

[landshark2084]

Today my dad was speaking to the wife of an RAF guy who has just been promoted, he asked to get posted to Leuchars and was told in no uncertain terms that Leuchars won`t be around in two years time.

I love these things, just so happens, I was talking to the cleaner's cat's mothers son's daughter, and they said Scotland would be under water by Friday!


Seriously, NO ONE yet knows, FACT, just wait and see

Amen to that, as the man says.......let's just wait and see !

Alan.

[Unknown74]

Good call landshark2084 - lets just wait and see, as UKMil says quite clearly, noone actually knows yet - Stand down the Hounds, place them on standby - the Fox can wait.

[Squadron Prints]

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/save.rafleuchars

There is a link to a petition - I know we need to wait and see but worth a couple of minutes to sign up just so you know that you tried! I signed all the others!

[Leuchars Fan]

Today my dad was speaking to the wife of an RAF guy who has just been promoted, he asked to get posted to Leuchars and was told in no uncertain terms that Leuchars won`t be around in two years time.

I can assure you sir, no such level of fortune telling exists in the R.A.F. If Leuchars was going to close next month, people would still be getting posted in. If as you are implying, that even R.A.F. personnel at the P.M.C. are already firmly aware that there is a closure date confirmed and that the M.O.D. are just keeping the news to themselves until next spring, then I can assure you admin personnel at the P.M.C. would still would be none the wiser, again, even if the station was due to close next week.

One other point, the suggestion that Leuchars may be closed "to save Lossiemouth" only surfaced at the weekend through a press report and only then following a hefty local public outcry at the "possible closure" of R.A.F. Lossiemouth. Up until which, everyone now beating the drum for Leuchars to close was beating the drum for Lossiemouth to close. "Oh yes there's no point in keeping Lossiemouth open etc, etc. Fast forwar a week and "Oh yes there's no point keeping Leuchars open etc, etc.

LF

[Michael Leek]

The latest news that ministers are now considering selling off RAF Leuchars for conversion to a civil airport in order to 'safeguard' RAF Lossiemouth is yet further evidence of the incompetence and lack of experience of those who sat on the SDSR committee and those who 'advised' them. This shows that the SDSR process was flawed from the beginning. If closing Leuchars was a serious consideration in the context of the defence and security needs of the UK then why has there been no earlier reference to this option other than coming about as a result of a public campaign to save RAF Lossiemouth and a less than detailed report in a Scottish newspaper? And, furthermore, were the RAF ever consulted? It was obviously on the advice of the RAF that the government agreed to having a planned contingent of three squadrons of Typhoons at RAF Leuchars to cover northern QRA and air defence duties, yet all of a sudden ministers are now apparently considering other options, without taking cognisance of the implications of another civil airport so close to Dundee's existing airport and its required airspace!

And if RAF Leuchars closes it will leave the UK with only one dedicated air defence station which one or two strategically placed IEDs could very easily put out of commission!

On a wider note I'm surprised that the national media haven't picked up on the irony in the title of the SDSR: Securing Britain in an Age of Uncertainty...!

[Thunder]

without taking cognisance of the implications of another civil airport so close to Dundee's existing airport and its required airspace!

And if RAF Leuchars closes it will leave the UK with only one dedicated air defence station which one or two strategically placed IEDs could very easily put out of commission!

If this was to happen I think Dundee airport would re locate to Leuchars which is just as accessible by road and train, and the current Dundee Airport location would/could be sold off for retail/housing development.

The Northern QRA would move to Lossiemouth no doubt if Leuchars was to close. It's not nice to see any Station fight for survival, but when it comes down to it Lossie is by far the more adaptable of the two.

[Leuchars Fan]

Fact by this time in 2012 RAF Scotland will have lost a RAF Station and this will either be Kinloss, Lossiemouth or Leuchars. But I would not be to worried about loosing all 3. Ask yourselves one simple question and you might even be able to figure out what will happen. Who owns around 80% of the West side of Scotland and spends more money in the area than all of the local population combined. The answer well its simple the British Army. Why is that so significant? Well what do the RAF supply the Army with? Thats right amongst other things they supply helicopters in order to move the Army's troops with. So why is that so important and why only one base and not two? Well take a look at the area from London Heathrow across to RAF Benson then on to RAF Brize Norton (another big pointer look at the volume of movements now and think of how this will increase after 2011) on to MoD Boscombe Down from here go to RAF Odiham and then back to London Heathrow. Have a good study and if you have time draw a line from point to point I'm sure you will see that the answer is not in Westminster or Hollyrood but in the corridor to the south west of London. This includes the airspace covered along the M4 and M3 corridors. Fact Scotland will loose a RAF Station and it will be either RAF Kinloss, RAF Lossiemouth or RAF Leuchars that goes, there is no argument there.

LF

[headset 57]

leuchars should go, and move whats left into dundee and the rest of lossie into wick, you know it makes sense
we don't need an raf scottie anymore as there's no oil or gas left to protect up there

[ArabJazzie]

A couple of pals of mine currently on Typhoon at CBY and had already heard rumours about Leuchars and Typhoon.
Some sobering thoughts for you to ponder, for and against Leuchars over Lossiemouth

Leuchars could be turned into Dundee International Airport, replacing the current one
Lossiemouth cannot, because it doesnt have a population centre to support it.

I suspect Dundee would love to get rid of their current airport because it cannot really handle a reasonable domestic airline, (and the traffic generated when there is a big Golf event at St Andrews)
They could also sell off the waterfront land for posh housing and make a killing in land sales.
Leuchars is ready made to take larger aircraft, and it also has loads of space which Dundee does not

Leuchars has a World class major attraction on its doorstep..St Andrews
Lossiemouth does not
When an Open is held at St Andrews, where do all the Biz park up...Leuchars

From a business infrastructure Leuchars is in a much better position to cope with the loss of jobs because it has a large city on its doorstep and is much closer to the central belt etc...
Lossiemouth cannot which is the focus for saving it,

6 Sqn are not really settled in as yet or even fully formed and combat ready and whats the flying time difference from Leuchars to Lossiemouth ...minutes..
so they could still be easily be moved just a bit further north to Lossiemouth.
Saying that the remaining Lossiemouth Tornado,s could be easily moved south, but because the infrastructure for Tornado is fully integrated at Lossie (which the Typhoon isnt to the same level), the expense would be significant against that of moving Typhoon.

The sad thing though is that all these rumours and so called plans seem to being made without any thought at all to the defence of our country, which just proves to me what a total mess the UK is now in and how shallow our (bot Mil & Political) current leadership is and how they have conned the country, and I agree no political parties really help our armed forces, cuts, cuts, cuts....easy

And it is in the Sunday Post as well, their take is that the two stations are being made to justify which one to retain by fighting against each other which is unbelievable. The intent of which is to shut two of the three Scottish RAF Bases, which is a complete outrage if you ask me, 8% defence cuts...who are they kidding

Jim and all,
Was gonna stay out of this one but having read through for the first time, i will put up my own thoughts as to the future of my work and my heaven. And Jim, Ive quoted this as it covers most of what i want to reply to, not as an attack on your good self! Your bigger than me anyway!!!

Leuchars, or part of, could certainly become Dundee International Airport(or would it be named DIA?), whether it would replace the current one, i dont know as i will cover later. The greater area around Lossiemouth has my collegues at Inverness to serve them and i dont think there is any need to move away from there. That kinda kills any civilian future for Lossie.

Dundee City Council would certainly not want rid of what is a great tool to support the local business community. The Scottish Executive certainly didnt want it to die and helped pass the running of the airfield to HIA. But as has been said, we are restricted in what we can launch off the runway with decent loads! From the new year we will have Fokker 50s to London and the Jersey Q400 flights were well loaded all summer.

As for selling the land off, i dont think they can as its all landfill that was still being filled in when i started at the airport in 1988 and wasnt fully complete until a couple of years after i had changed jobs 11 years ago. There are still issues there, including in an area that was filled in the 50s.

We all know Leuchars can handle a huge amount of aircraft as we all hark back to the great Airshows and exercises of the 70s, 80s and 90s. This ties into the attractions around the area. Along with St Andrews, there is Carnoustie and Gleneagles. There are also various hunting lodges and quite a few regular customers visit their various places using both Dundee and Leuchars.

But this aint strictly true. "When an Open is held at St Andrews, where do all the Biz park up...Leuchars"
Discounting this year as both Dundee and Leuchars were down on golf traffic, lots of biz does visit Leuchars but Dundee usually gets a fair lump of stuff. Leuchars tend to get the stayers, Dundee gets the in n ooties and Edinburgh gets a skelp as well. One reason some of the biz go elsewhere is the extortion that goes on regarding landing fees at Leuchars. However im not sure that reduced fees would be enough to entice all the Leuchars, Dundee and Edinburgh golf related traffic, plus the non open traffic through the year that Leuchars turns away. One thing to think of is Dundee can handle most of the modern big bizzers and send them a fair distance, two of our regular Global Express visitors usually depart for home from us. But if we get em both in, as has happened, we cant take much else!!! The Dundee space issue isnt that hard to overcome though!

As for Leuchars and the Typhoon, ive heard rumblings that not all the money has been earmark as yet for the Typhoons integration into Leuchars but is sitting in the pot for whatever reason.

And yes, this is a bit of a topic at work just now as it obviously affects our future but it also has an effect on another Dundee Airport user. Will the airport close? There is an occupant at the minute who would have a very good use for the airport. Its not as if they are unfamiliar with the airport having operated thereabouts since the 60s. New housing at Glenrothes?

One thing i heard of as well was one of the rumours was that 6sqn were to return to Coningsby soon. Only thing is, they would still hold Northern QRA from an enclave at a civilian run airport. Just think about it a little bit!!!

And whats in a name? Edinburgh/St Andrews International Airport anyone? Is not as if Ryanair fly straight to many European capitals!!!
Arabest,
Geoff.
PS, If you dont follow, its because ive been thinking of something else that im about to reply to.
PPS, Anyone who knocks Dundee for what it is, has not been there on a good day and should just...........

[ArabJazzie]

Fact by this time in 2012 RAF Scotland will have lost a RAF Station and this will either be Kinloss, Lossiemouth or Leuchars. But I would not be to worried about loosing all 3. Ask yourselves one simple question and you might even be able to figure out what will happen. Who owns around 80% of the West side of Scotland and spends more money in the area than all of the local population combined. The answer well its simple the British Army. Why is that so significant? Well what do the RAF supply the Army with? Thats right amongst other things they supply helicopters in order to move the Army's troops with. So why is that so important and why only one base and not two? Well take a look at the area from London Heathrow across to RAF Benson then on to RAF Brize Norton (another big pointer look at the volume of movements now and think of how this will increase after 2011) on to MoD Boscombe Down from here go to RAF Odiham and then back to London Heathrow. Have a good study and if you have time draw a line from point to point I'm sure you will see that the answer is not in Westminster or Hollyrood but in the corridor to the south west of London. This includes the airspace covered along the M4 and M3 corridors. Fact Scotland will loose a RAF Station and it will be either RAF Kinloss, RAF Lossiemouth or RAF Leuchars that goes, there is no argument there.

Andy,
Im not sure i follow this but will have a go! From what ive seen in the past, you must have a damn good contact somewhere! First off from other reports, Kinloss is closed(As a flying station??) as far as i can make out. That concludes the first part of the whos to close argument. Im quite sure though that the Army doesnt "OWN" 80% of the west of Scotland and i must be missing something if they do and as you claim, spend more money in the area than all of the locals! As an aside, i think its recently been proved that Crown Estates has no rights to the coast of Scotland.
Now if i have the correct handle on this then i will be a very happy man! And what im about to write is my own deductions from what you wrote. So the area to the SW of Heathrow is a very congested place from ground level, way up to 45,000ft. Apart from the places you mention, right off the top of my head in that area, and i visited most of them in May, i count around 8 civil light and biz airfields(possibly another 10-15 just outside the area) and an intensive gliding airfield/airline maintenance base. All these places will pick up again as the country recovers along with natural growth with the likes of Brize and Heathrow and how far are they from saturation?
So now Andy, are you seriously implying that Benson and Odiham(Long standing rumour to housing anyway!) will close with their assets moving to Lossie or Leuchars. Well Lossie would get my vote for that as i think some of the Germany based troops will be placed at Kinloss. However, i dont think this will happen really as for current ops, everything passes through Brize to the sun and helicopter deep maintenance is handled down at Fleetlands(Chinook) and Culdrose(Merlin, rumoured moving here/Yeovilton). Also the biggest regular training area for the army in the UK, borders the SW edge of that area you have marked out on the picture of the map ive built in my head.
Arabest,
Geoff whos calcutator has just done 2+2=700mil!!!

[Bluetail]

With Gordon Brown now supporting Leuchars, the station is definately doomed, they,ll shut it just to p!ss him off even more.

Never has one man been hated by so many...he even makes Blair look honest...nah I dont think so

[Thunder]

There has been no offical statement saying that Kinloss will close as a flying station. The only reference I've heard to suggest this may be the case was the Station Commander when interviewed the same day as the SDR was announced, but that was his own words. However there are people outwith our Goverment that want Kinloss to stay open and they may get what they want.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

[ythanpythan]

There was an internal briefing on the day of the SDSR saying Kinloss would cease to be an RAF Station. If you were splitting hairs you could say that the Army may end up flying out of it.

Covered here
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=20758

And the defence estates factsheet.
http://download.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/sd ... estate.pdf

It's going to be a long Q1 next year as we wait for some firm decisions.

[Gary]

The scotsman are saying Leuchars is doomed http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/news/Le ... iclepage=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Thunder]

There was an internal briefing on the day of the SDSR saying Kinloss would cease to be an RAF Station. If you were splitting hairs you could say that the Army may end up flying out of it.

Covered here
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=20758

And the defence estates factsheet.
http://download.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/sd ... estate.pdf

It's going to be a long Q1 next year as we wait for some firm decisions.

An RAF flying station yes..... remember though that NATO have massive interests both operationally and financially in Kinloss. As has been seen since this year with the amount of deployed a/c into the base.

As said "wait and see" there may be a twist in this to come.

[tremblers111]

well i read today some pro's and con's to lossie and leuchars staying open and overall for QRA north leuchars had far more going for it to survive between lossie and leuchars only because of the larger populated area's edinburgh,glasgow,perth,dundee also the nuclear power station which lies just a stone throw from leuchars and to quote its stratigic position in scotland was overwhelming,but we all know this means nothing,because things that we would do and things that make sense is not the way of the goverment,its all very sad i really hope lossie leuchars and marham stay open and they close somewhere like linton on ouse or other training air base only from a point i read in air forces monthly,with retiring the jaguar,harrier, 2 sqd of Gr4's and nimrod the RAF now has more than enough extra pilots and nav's so the need to train more is maybe not required in the near future they quoted the next 3 years im certainly no expert on this so am here to be corrected