Airshows

[GVLCN]

Red arrows are the only ones allowed to do it & they still have that exemption. However they weren't permitted to do it with the Vulcan at RIAT.

[rdchawk]

Red arrows are the only ones allowed to do it & they still have that exemption. However they weren't permitted to do it with the Vulcan at RIAT.

I also thought the Blades were allowed as well?

[Pune]

So, let's see what the powers that be conclude, we don't even know what caused this tragedy yet, knee jerk reaction and speculation is rife in other sections of this forum as usual.
There was a splendid piece by an ex RAF Pilot who sits on the display board this morning who spoke so well on this subject, putting the news reader right on a few things.

[Trenchard]

The Red Arrows never fly over the airfield at Riat

Sorry you're wrong, the Reds arrived from crowd rear into a climb and formation change.

[Pune]

The Red Arrows never fly over the airfield at Riat

Sorry you're wrong, the Reds arrived from crowd rear into a climb and formation change.

Quite correct Trenchard, they seem to start the display this way if possible, also did so at Duxford earlier this year, I note on the news things have already changed, no vintage jet displays any more, just fly-by's!!
Pity

[roughcutter]

The air show industry in this country have managed to survive the repercussions from many air disasters in the past. However I feel such is the gravity of last Sunday's tragic events at Shoreham, that (if the authorities/anti air show fraternity have their way) then the latest restrictions to be imposed are only the beginning of a massive purge on the future of air shows in this country. Today rightly or wrongly because of a blame culture, our society which is dominated by H&S/PC rules. I can envision that after the dust has settled, such events in the future will be policed much more - "in the interest of public safety", vast areas and perimeter roads around the outside of the venue will be cordoned off from the public. The cost of this extra manpower will then be passed on to the organisers, the insurance companies will have a field day and premiums will skyrocket and inevitably the cost of an admission ticket will also rise dramatically. Small stall holders and venders will be put off from attending because of the higher rates charged for a pitch. Then what will turn up for the display? There will be a massive clamp down on what aircraft are deemed safe to perform - vintage fast jets will probably be restricted to the static park. Then the display line itself will be moved even further away from the crowdline and only acceptable air manoevers will be permitted in the display discipline. What we will end up with is an expensive and diluted/insipid day out. Rip off Britain at it's best. Hope I'm wrong, I feel this time around that it's the beginning of the end....

[bizfreeq]

I note on the news things have already changed, no vintage jet displays any more, just fly-by's!!
Pity

You should also have noted on the news then that this restriction is currently temporary

[POL]

I note on the news things have already changed, no vintage jet displays any more, just fly-by's!!
Pity

You should also have noted on the news then that this restriction is currently temporary

When was the last CAA safety notice rescinded..?

[Pune]

The news I saw didn't mention temporary, but we can hope that is the case.

[Thunder]

Every spectator sport is a risk why was football not stopped after the stadium fire or the events at Sheffield

Oh, that's an easy one to answer. The football disasters involved only spectators INSIDE the ground. , and this is the whole crux of Saturdays problem. It involved people outside the airfield, unconnected with the event.

More likely to do with the amount of money that would be lost by the sponsors and owners of the clubs. Same as F1, don't hear any calls for it to be banned or cars to race at a reduced speed after deaths during that sport, to much money at stake. Airshows on the other hand, easy target. Yes improvements concerning safety regarding what lies outside the fence need looking at, but the airshows/classic jets should be banned hysteria that the press are whipping up is nothing but extreme.

[airfixpilot]

Maybe they could do restrictions of a display based on the age of the airframe. This could mean that the older the airframe, the less aerobatics the aircraft can do.
The shuttle worth collection aircraft would do a flyby down the crowd line, due to the fragile nature of stringbag plane. Also maybe a strict check on maintained old aircraft by a third party from càa, or mod for military display aircraft. Just a thought

[EGDR]

The problem with that is that airframe age does not neccesarily mean higher airframe fatigue. Using WV372 as an example, I recall reading that although it's 60 years old its fatigue index is only around 30/100 due to how long it's been in storage or used as a ground instruction airframe.

[POL]

Maybe they could do restrictions of a display based on the age of the airframe. This could mean that the older the airframe, the less aerobatics the aircraft can do.

On what basis are you defining "age"? Would an original WWI Fokker Triplane and a modern replica built to the same design, materials and methods be considered the same or different? Would a Hunter, rebuilt and zero-timed, be the same as one that hasn't been maintained since it was retired from military service?

The shuttle worth collection aircraft would do a flyby down the crowd line, due to the fragile nature of stringbag plane.

"stringbag plane?" What's one of those? The only term "stringbag" I know of when applied to aviation is the Fairey Swordfish; of which the Shuttleworth Collection own precisely zero. The Fly Navy Heritage Trust, however, have two - and for the most part neither of which do more than straight and level flypasts.

Also maybe a strict check on maintained old aircraft by a third party from càa, or mod for military display aircraft. Just a thought

For ex-military aircraft in civilian hands, they are usually flown on a Permit to Fly, you can read more here: https://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=1413. I believe that that link, and indeed other places on the web, explains quite clearly what checks are undertaken by the CAA before a Permit to Fly can be issued. Certificates of Airworthiness also require checks, and are somewhat more detailed too.

Are you suggesting the MOD don't undertake airworthiness checks on their aircraft? That bit is not clear, sorry.

[Phoon]

Red arrows are the only ones allowed to do it & they still have that exemption. However they weren't permitted to do it with the Vulcan at RIAT.

BBMF and Blades were / are also permitted for such arrivals.

[Malcolm]

There is a good post on PPRUNE from a Barrister. He says the courts consider that people fall into one of three types :

1) People who are in control of the event - people like pilots or racing car drivers. These people know the risks they are taking, and accept them.

2) Spectators - people who aren't in control of the event, but are there to watch it. There is always a risk involved with this, and most motor sport tickets actually state on them somewhere that "Motorsports can be dangerous". So by being a spectator you are implicitly accepting some of the risks involved. At an air show, there is always a chance of a plane crashing, and every incident will have so many random factors that no-where can be 100% safe.

3) 3rd parties - people who live nearby or are just passing by, and have no intentional involvement in the event, and therefore are not aware of any increased risk.

If you're inside an air show, outside in a naughty field or watching a car race, then you are in group 2. You expect the organisers to reduce the risk as much as possible, but there has to be some personal responsibility on you as to where you watch from, especially if you're not in an official viewing place.

If you're driving down a main road trying to get somewhere else and a plane crashes on you, then you're in group 3. This is unacceptable. It's also why this incident is different to Farnborough or Ramstein. There have been many close shaves over the years - Fairford Migs, Carfest Gnat, Radom Su-27, Mildenhall Vintage Pair - any of these could have resulted in 3rd party deaths. It is right that the authorities constantly review all aspects of air show and display flying to see what lessons can be learnt after each event.

However, I suspect that the final say will actually be had by the insurance companies who will increase premiums or refuse to insure events and display acts. That could effectively ban all air displays.

[22A]

Perhaps now Duxford will do a lot more than just those warning signs that everyone ignores and sort out physically stopping people from going in the naughty field or maybe the pilots being more forceful with Duxford and refusing to display if they're people in the area??

Would this also spell the end of the campsites by Fairford??

Yesterday & today the organiser of Sunday's Little Gransden airshow has appealed on the local radio for people without tickets not to stand in the nearby fields. Firstly those are designated spaces for pilots to aim for if they run into difficulties. Secondly, if people do still congregate in those fields, the show may be stopped and the paying public will be informed who has caused the show to end prematurely.
If anyone does want to go to Little Gransden, on line tickets are sold out, but some are still available from the village shop.