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Performance take offs

A forum for discussing all things related to MILITARY AVIATION including Military Aviation news. No off-topic discussions here please.
3051Howe
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: Performance take offs

Post by 3051Howe » Wed May 23, 2018 3:09 pm

Performance takeoffs are a tactical option as well. Stick it on its backside and get above the limit heights of surface to air missile systems etc as quickly as possible. Typhoon's are now the RAF's mainstay of fast jet capability with the wind down of the Tornado and the F-35 a long way away from operational approval by the RAF so are most likely to end up in theatres that require them to be able to get out of the way of surface to air stuff, they are most vulnerable to that during landing/take off

Seahornet1
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Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:51 am

Re: Performance take offs

Post by Seahornet1 » Thu May 24, 2018 2:25 pm

Dazza37 wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 3:03 pm
Seahornet1 wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 9:28 am
Malcolm wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 8:36 am
... Longer in reheat = lower engine life...
I can understand that it will shorten the life of the reheat, tailpipe and nozzle components, but why would it affect the engine itself? Are 'non-reheat' take offs conducted at less than full power on the engine core...?
Reheat take-offs use max engine rpm, which increases turbine inlet temperature, turbine temp, combustion temp, heat and wear of all bearings/moving components etc, and a host of other engine wear parameters, all of which reduces engine life between major overhauls...

-Dazza
So, "yes" to my last question then...? I'd always assumed that a non-reheat take-off would also require maximum engine rpm; I didn't realise the Typhoon had quite so much power to spare! :)

Flap62
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Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:26 pm

Re: Performance take offs

Post by Flap62 » Thu May 24, 2018 2:36 pm

It’s not really a fast jet thing to perform de-rated take-offs to preserve engine life. I’m not totally familiar with the Typhoon but each take off (unless it was a formation t/o when the leader would not use full power) was at full power in every military type I’ve flown so I can’t see that it would have any effect on engine life over normal usage.

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Dazza37
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Re: Performance take offs

Post by Dazza37 » Thu May 24, 2018 11:15 pm

Flap62 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 2:36 pm
It’s not really a fast jet thing to perform de-rated take-offs to preserve engine life. I’m not totally familiar with the Typhoon but each take off (unless it was a formation t/o when the leader would not use full power) was at full power in every military type I’ve flown so I can’t see that it would have any effect on engine life over normal usage.
The Typhoon has so much SEP at low/medium take-off weights that reheat is not needed, engine life is increased (or rather, MTBF or TBOH) as a result of not needing to use reheat for every take-off, earlier military types or those with overall heavier take-off weights/less SEP will use reheat and this is factored into the MTBF/TBOH hours. The same holds true with any type of engine though, if you don't run it at high power settings for extended periods, it will need less maintenance, and by extension, last longer...

-Dazza
I rock, you don't...

hernaman86
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:27 pm

Re: Performance take offs

Post by hernaman86 » Fri May 25, 2018 12:53 pm

Would they ever use re-heaton night flying ops? Just i went last Tuesday to Coningsby and i didn't see one re-heat take off which i was gutted about ( they sound so so much better and louder), The F15s at lakenheath use them most of the time and definitely on night ops as i have seen it, i guess it comes down to why put an engine under stress which is not needed?

hernaman86
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Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:27 pm

Re: Performance take offs

Post by hernaman86 » Fri May 25, 2018 12:54 pm

i hope they are not so stingy with the F35 at Marham and use plenty of re-heat ( i have heard its very loud) ;-)

slogen51
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Location: Norfolk - Mundford - too many trees

Re: Performance take offs

Post by slogen51 » Fri May 25, 2018 6:14 pm

I always thought ( probably wrongly) that the performance take off was related to the pilot graduating to the next stage or becoming fully operational?

The eagles at Lakenheath can launch without burners but thankfully they seem to use afterburners 90% of the time.

(Also I think the Typhoon low approach and go around is rather tame compared to LN eagles. The Typhoons don't retract the gear and pull a nice high G turn such as seen daily at Lakenheath)

3051Howe
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: Performance take offs

Post by 3051Howe » Fri May 25, 2018 10:01 pm

Chatting to a BAe engineer a while ago, Typhoons keep the gear down once in the circuit as the aircraft has to go in and have the gear serviced every so many cycles so once down it stays down to reduce the amount of servicing required. They won’t do the high speed run up the runway and high g break downwind again as a result then of the Limiting speeds and g limit on the gear

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das
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Location: huntingdon.cambs

Re: Performance take offs

Post by das » Sun May 27, 2018 8:49 am

Oh for the days when Eagles did it as standard....

Ray

gyvespa
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Re: Performance take offs

Post by gyvespa » Sun May 27, 2018 10:46 am

We were once sitting on the M25 under the Heathrow approach, stuck in traffic.
I opened the sun roof and was idly watching the planes coming in.
As I looked up, a ‘Jumbo’ started to retract it’s undercarriage, fingers in ears time, as it gave it the big un, aborting the landing.
Really quite impressive.
First time I’d seen this happen.

Northsky
Posts: 315
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:35 am

Re: Performance take offs

Post by Northsky » Sun May 27, 2018 3:11 pm

How about performance take off in a C-130 ?
N

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PR9
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Location: Berneslai

Re: Performance take offs

Post by PR9 » Tue May 29, 2018 10:21 am

Northsky wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 3:11 pm
How about performance take off in a C-130 ?
N
You can fit JATO to a Herk. :thumb:
MISSING - x1 Air Force.
If found please return to the UK.

Flap62
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Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:26 pm

Re: Performance take offs

Post by Flap62 » Tue May 29, 2018 12:49 pm

Another reason for the performance takeoff is that, in air 2 air fit, ie not tanks, the single seater needs the 70 deg climb to stop it accelerating through the Mach in the climb. So, if on a Q scramble for example, the quickest way to height in full burner without the associated boom is performance take off.

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