RAF Waddington airshow 2011

[jakdaw]

ok sheff you seem to have valid points, without having to go through 18 pages on this thread and without ripping into the current airshow team what would sheffs waddo show be like you have a similar budget (cos this is fixed) the same aircraft available and the same weekend i am genuinely interested not a dig your idea of the future of airshows is a interesting point.

[bobthehandyman]

Not about lamenting, it's about accepting that when a horse has been flogged to death, it's best replaced by something else.

We've done all the arguments about why and how we got to this stage but the point is that it is a one-way street. If nothing changes it gets progressively worse. The Vulcan will probably be gone after this year, the Red Arrows have another 5-6 years left to go probably, the BBMF might survive but it may well be sold-off. Even the "main acts" which entertain Joe Public will be gone. Then what?

The event is supposed to be the RAF's showcase and a money-raising opportunity. At present it fulfills only one of those aims. In a few years it will fulfill neither. The aircraft are there, it is just that they cannot be allocated to a "show" any longer. The key to the future is to abandon the notion of the event being a "show" as such, and more about being an opportunity for the public to see the RAF/Nato in action. Make no mistake, there is much which could be done, if the RAF's Chiefs and MoD mandarins were not bogged-down in dogma. They will stay bogged-down while people like us keep patting them on their backs, telling them that they're doing a good job. We're digging our own graves, metapohrically-speaking.

Well, I intend to have one last look at the RAF Waddington airshow this year, and try to make the best of what shows up, because after this season, I'm pulling the 'plug' on most airshows in the UK I attend, which I've done since I was 11, and I'm now 53. I made this decision last night after looking hard at the UK airshow set-up, and again depending on what you want out of it, I think it's time to 'call-time' . I have a number of 'issues' with the UK airshow scene, but I'm sure the world will not come to an end, if one £20 'punter' goes 'missing' !!.It's been fun over the years, but you how it is, if your not happy, 'deal with it' !! which I have.

G.

G.

Good point, and the same here, UK shows are in decline and I feel that they offer nothing new except higher ticket prices, using the funds to go European and some US shows, free entry, better weather and you never know whats going to be there. And again another £20 punter has pulled out but the world will keep doing what it does.................

[Sheff]

Jakdaw there's a lot that could be done differently and most of it has been discussed here and elsewhere before. The basic point though is that it all comes down to a question of whether there is any will to accept that the current show format is doomed, and at present there isn't because the public still turn-up.

Other commentators have said before that without any changes the air show scene will inevitably end-up being nothing more than a few seaside events comprising of civilian aerobatics, a few warbirds and little else. This does seem inevitable if one looks at the steady decline, the logistics and costs, safety rules and everything else. So, the only way forward (as I see it) is to abandon the show and try something else.

In essence, the key to success is to stop presenting the event as a "show" and create an opportunity for the public to see the RAF/Nato going about its business. There is no reason why exercises, routine flying and other aspects of military aviation cannot be geared to take place at one location on one day, and simply allow the public to watch. This then becomes a "no cost" exercise given that it is simply a case of re-jigging the activities which would already be taking place (and this concept includes a lot of different ideas which could be incorporated into it of course). Likewise, it ought to be possible to combine routine operations with "show acts" so that there is enough "entertainment" to attract spectators. If the routine ops stay specifically routine, they don't fall foul of the suffocating CAA display regulations either. If the remaining "show acts" were co-ordinated to appear within such an event, then we get a show that would captivate enthusiasts, delight the public and give the RAF a proper showcase event.

No reason at all why it couldn't be done, it's just a matter of mind-set really. At present, the organisers see no reason to change what they've done for decades, even though even they must know that the concept is collapsing around them. Likewise, the "Brass" higher up in the lofty echelons of the RAF and MoD simply regard events like Waddington as trivial public shows which must be treated as such, confined within all the usual rules and regulations. They don't see any value in showing the taxpayer what they're all about (well some do obviously, but there are far too many stuffy old guys who really don't have a clue about such issues). They will continue regarding Waddington as little more than a glorified summer fete unless the organisers have the motivation (and will) to go to them and say that this is a useless situation. But they will not, while Joe Public keeps-on coming along for a day out at a fairground with the Red Arrows and a few others to amuse them. As long as the money keeps rolling in (and nothing wrong with that of course) then they have no reason to change anything. But even they must know that following the same path for too much longer is going to result in no show at all.

This is why I keep carping about the "well done chaps" comments. It's great to support the RAF and the show organisers but it is doing us and them no favours at all. It is simply encouraging things to stay precisely as they are and we all know where that is going to lead us.

[jakdaw]

ok sheff i can see your point the pat on the back i am giving them is that under the current format the of air show and the current enviroment, i do not see what more they could do for the show and agree there are less big pulls but still enough for me an enthusiast of 25 plus years to be able to enjoy a good day full of aircraft. i like your idea for exercises being open to the public but we are already aware of when exercises are and where to watch from in most cases and as soon as you open a base to the public it becomes a show then display rules come into effect as does health and safety as far as i am aware, for example waddington wave cannot open for arrivals day and yet you can sit at the end of the runway, because wave is mod land and the road verges are not, silly but true. also aircraft doing more than circuits and fly bys would still need display authorisation etc. lets face it RAF could not get it right for the US navy last month screwing up there training, what chance exercise and show combined. most time exercises depart do there stuff in the hills or over the sea then land.surely what you can do at coningsby every day of the week is watch exercises, if it was cheaper to lump all training together they already would. i like your idea but it sounds like the only workable way of doing it is a week in southern italy or cyprus because the basic facts are less military aircraft in service means more civil at airshows and yes then its your choice to choose.

[Sheff]

Indeed, as you say, there are big problems with H&S, CAA rules and so on. But this is where the whole concept needs a fundamental shake-up. The CAA's rules are absurd and they (the CAA) also should be taken to task, especially in terms of any new approach to creating an event. Naturally, if the people who make the decisions don't care, then we will get nowhere. It needs everyone to be starting from the same place with the same aims. To be honest I doubt if there's any chance of saving the show concept. Ultimately, I think it's destined to simply deteriorate until shows are simply not worth staging or not worth going to (many would argue they've already reached that point of course). But I'm also sure that unless anyone even tries to make a change, there's no hope at all. Enthusiasts are the only people who have any real interest in saving the "air show" in some form and yet we are the very people who are encouraging its demise by continually congratulating the show organisers for creating an increasingly poor event. It's madness!

[beefsteak]

I'll tell you what Sheff, (I'm with you on the CAA by the way, they have certainly removed a lot of the excitement from modern day shows (No flares for example)but why don't you wait till after the show, then write to the organizing committee with your list of complaints and your suggestions on how they could improve their show, don't forget to include your ticket stubb and ask for your money back.
I'm sure the organizers will bend over backwards to accomodate you !!!

Roll on Waddo, then we'll only have to hear you moan about RIAT for a fortnight, then we'll just have to wait till October till you start again !!.........

[jakdaw]

ok sheff, you wont admit it but we are both close to agreeing the organisers are doing as much as they can under the current rules and regs and with budgetary constraints from above and they do make a lot of money for charity. yet looking forward airshows need to change from the ground up rules, regs, planning, format everything from scratch. what do from here then boycotting shows would not help as i said previously enthusiasts only make up 4% of airshow goers and joe public would soon fill that 4%

[Sheff]

You're starting-off with dodgy figures. Enthusiasts don't make-up four percent of the air show crowd. If we're defining an "enthusiast" as someone who has an interest in military aircraft, it's probably more like seventy percent of the crowd if not more. Likewise, one could determine an enthusiast as someone who is sufficiently interested to buy magazines. Together, through the magazine and internet media, we have a very significant voice. As separate individuals our views count for nothing. Therein lies the potential...

[jakdaw]

sorry if my figures are bad you know what they say about stats can be made to prove anything. besides 60% of the time they are right everytime. but looking at the wadd crowd the majority do not seem to be enthusiasts who are displeased with what they are seeing the vast amount seem to be snapping away on camera phones enjoying some good junk food and treating there kids to a cracking day out. i would suggest 100% of people paying £20 to go to an airshow have an interest in military aircraft and are therefore all enthusiasts, but 100% of the crowd will not be saying where is the alca and what no f-16 the typhoon will be a miss but the one/two shows a year enthusiasts will be happy with the red arrows vulcan and t-birds. as for magazines good luck with backing there, most regularly back enclosures and need to keep shows on side i certainly have not seen any pull apart the show seen. as for the internet well only half the group seem to agree and internet groups can be easily ignored and the show is all about the figures and they keep filling the base the only thing that is importnt to organisers. sorry sheff i will join you in your airshow revolution but i still dont know which way to march. maybe chain myself to the railings in front of the jet provosts

[Sheff]

as for magazines good luck with backing there, most regularly back enclosures and need to keep shows on side i certainly have not seen any pull apart the show seen

Exactly! They're worse culprits than forum users! Terrified of saying anything negative in case they lose their free tickets or risk losing an advert. Begs the question as to whether the magazines are created by "journalists" at all. I'd be inclined to think that the Editors are simply suitably literate enthusiasts. They're not journalists as such because they never pursue so much as a single story. Regurgitating press releases is not news - only Flight is a true journal as such and of course they haven't got the slightest interest in air shows. Pity really. The media have clout in every sphere of life but not aviation, it seems. If only us folks on the forums could speak with one voice... maybe we'd be able to persuade the magazine Editors to "get some nuts" as a well-known advert suggests

[tomcat79uk]

Few interesting points on here about the way the airshow scene has moved from even 10 years back to now.

For me the Airshow days are now targeted towards a family theme and less for the enthusiast.

You only have to look at the stalls at the shows candy stalls , toy stalls , clothes stalls and seen a few stalls at Leuchars last year that made me realise the way the show days are going.

I remember 10 years ago you would have a line of ex army navy stalls that sold all the tie pins , para boots , army jackets you name it they had it and it was the real McCoy.Now you are lucky to see one of those stalls and in it's place is toy and candy stalls.

Thinking back to Leuchars there was probably between 2 to 3 thousand enthusiast's there all at the front of the crowd line taking there pictures but there was at least 6 times that number just there for the day out with the kids.

[Sheff]

You only have to look at the stalls at the shows candy stalls , toy stalls , clothes stalls and seen a few stalls at Leuchars last year that made me realise the way the show days are going

That's another thorny problem. The trade stands have slowly become more generic because these are the only ones that can afford to attend now. Joe Public wants ghastly plastic framed photos at two quid a pop, or inflatable Red Arrows jets for the kiddies to play with. That's what sells. The enthusiasts stalls just don't make enough money. That's why most stopped attending RIAT years ago - because they can't afford to. This is another case where I laugh at RIAT's bizarre claims to be catering for the enthusiast. If they were, then they could offer space to enthuisast traders (or simple displays) for less money or for free. It wouldn't cost them anything (because they are not there at prsent) and heaven-known they've got acres of empty space these days. But of course they wouldn't dream of such an approach. In fairness to Waddington they are rather more open to such flexibility but it is undoubtedly another example of how a show becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy - the trade caters for the public that dictates the trade... etc.

I was just looking at this:-
http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=33984

Comical isn't it - even Germany can stage something interesting and it's a mere "Open Day"...

[beefsteak]

Few interesting points on here about the way the airshow scene has moved from even 10 years back to now.

For me the Airshow days are now targeted towards a family theme and less for the enthusiast.

.

I'm sorry if you think that airshows are just now targeted towards a family theme and not bending towards the enthusiasts. In my opinion that's a long long way from the truth, they have always been aimed at family entertainment, and recruitment, going back to the great 'Barnstorming' shows between the wars, and also in my youth. Yes we were treated to all the frontline stuff, (Lightnings, Javelins, Phantoms etc) but there were also "streamer cutting" and egg dropping stunts, along with the girl on the wing , and even the odd bit of Pylon racing thrown in!

It's just a shame that a lot of you seem to think that they are put on solely for your entertainment and not the 44,999 others that go with an open mind (And wallet) to enjoy the spectacle that is was and (Hopefully) always will be, The Great British Airshow.


Oh and Sheff , re your last post, that's precicely the point , that is an airfields mere "Open Day" not an Air Show, which is what Waddington is !!

[Sheff]

That was my point - the German event was a mere Open day... and yet...

[cottesmore09]

Who said a Grob Tutor can't put on a breath taking show??

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... udent.html

Maybe its from 2008 and not airshow related but Waddington has got it flying... Wow: So i've got to be ready for this one

Off the subject, Only if it was a Tonka!

[beefsteak]

And POW, it went over your head again.

I'll try it again.

If it were a freinds and family day (IE open day) over here, they too would show military aircraft only .
(And as it's Germany they've got a few more bob than us , cause we spent all our dosh beating them in WW2, and we were daft enough to let them re build their forces and notpay us back in full
Oh forget it , Sheffs right everbody , let's leave it at that .

[Sheff]

Brilliant

[beefsteak]

[davedubya]

I remember 10 years ago you would have a line of ex army navy stalls that sold all the tie pins , para boots , army jackets you name it they had it and it was the real McCoy.Now you are lucky to see one of those stalls and in it's place is toy and candy stalls.

Indeed.

I can remember as kid always being fascinated by the stalls that sold old aircraft parts and empty ammunition shells.

[turbosix]

Another week goes by without any significant improvement to the participation list.