RAF Cottesmore.

[Tooks]

What could have been an easier decision for a Labour Government than to shut an airbase that resides in a safe Tory seat?!

If I put my cynicism aside though, I guess it isn't very surprising.

I've spent the last few nights talking to my best mate about this, a serving member of the RAF stationed at Wittering. His partner is based at Cottesmore so you can imagine they are a bit concerned! He reminded me that Cottesmore was always scheduled to close at some point, although not yet, but the squadrons will not move to Wittering until Mach 2011, if at all... It was a widely held view within the RAF that Cottesmore was not going to base the JSF as it was too noisy.

Personally, I think the 'Elephant in the room' around this is the forthcoming general election. It might be too much to hope, but maybe a different government might make different decisions. That being said, it would be nice to think these decisions have been made/agreed by chiefs of staff, so maybe things won't change. The state of our economy can't be ignored either, and rightly or wrongly it's difficult to justify expenditure on near end of life kit.

I'm not saying it's right, but trying to be a bit philosophical as are my friends.

The lack of future photographic opportunities don't matter of course in comparison to peoples livelihoods and impacts on families...

[Fighterfoto]

With the economy in the state it's in there were always going to be cuts in defence. But bear in mind it's for the RAF to decide where to make those savings. I was sceptical that GR.4 could fulfill the CAS role in Afghanistan but it is doing a very good job.

[Doughnut]

Quote "Many of the married quarters there have been sold off so where will the personnel live?"

Same place they are today. Privately owned and paying rent to a private landlord, I believe most MOD housing stock was sold off years ago, all be it to another Government run department. These announcements are for the benefit of the press and public consumption. The privatisation / contractor provider route which the MOD embarked on years ago has meant that these changes can be made easier. How much of the infrastructure maintance and non opperational work is carried at by RAF personel at Cottesmore ? Not a lot is my guess. The BAe opperated Harrier servicing and modification work could still continue if the MOD were to lease the whole Cottesmore site to BAe, jobs would be secure, for the time being but the work will end eventually and although 'operational' flying would offically end, the squadrons could still be based there for training and maintance purposes. What is left of the RAF air traffic, fire cover and security could be transfered to contractor services. The biggest cost to MOD of RAF Cottesmore, as with every base in the country, is its maintance and long term decommissioning, most of which concerns the 'green lobby' and conforming to other Government targets. The transfer of ownership to BAe should also transfer responsiblity but an important part of this sort of transfer should be that no restriction be imposed on BAe should they wish to expand flying opperations or to offer parts of the site for other commerical / residential development. The NIBYS should not be the winner either, arguing one minute to protect the RAF jobs, but complaining about excessive jet noise, next minute protesting about a housing developement on the redundent airfield.

[Sheff]

but the squadrons will not move to Wittering until Mach 2011, if at all

Indeed, it seems more than likely that as part of next year's Defence Review, the remainder of the Harrier fleet will be dumped too. This notion of re-locating to Wittering doesn't sound very likely at all.

There's no point signing petitions or lobbying MP's. What's happening now is inevitable and it's been coming for a long time, as some of us have been saying. The results will be much the same no matter what party is in power. The basic fact is that the country is almost bankrupt and we can't afford to maintain a credible defence posture while so much money is going into Afghanistan. Given that all three parties are obsessed with that crusade, there is no viable option to vote for anyone who would get us out of there, enabling defence resources to be spent on the UK. We're stuck with the present situation sadly.

[Blackcat1]

Well done Figgis!! every decision this governement makes is total b******s, they are happy enough to send troops/aircraft to fight their wars. Politicians are selfish and only think of themselves, they dont give a toss about the people of this country and what they think. Trouble is if Labour go the Tories wont be any better, its sickening how this government is determined to run this country into the ground! no wonder depression and hypertension is so common in the UK!!!!!

Up the revolution!!!!!

[JG71]

I will leave you with this well known saying."Don't bury your head in the sand and do nothing"

I am proud of my country so lets have some pride in ourselves.If i can make representations to my MP i will.I am sick to my back teeth at the way this country has gone with bonuses for shuffling bits of paper around.

Right i am off round Gisellas house for a cup of tea and a chat.

Jim.

[f-4]

I agree with Sheff - the move to Wittering won't happen overnight, the logistics will delay it until after SDR in which the need for carriers will be dropped as we'll withdraw from being a 'world player' - this'll mean the Harriers will be axed overnight and the F-35 buy will be converted into the C-model to replace GR4, which will be phased out as quickly as they can. Next for the chop will be Marham in about 2020.

[Tooks]

Whilst accepting it's great to find somebody to blame, and that the current Government hasn't exactly been a great one, I think the blame (if it needs to be apportioned) is much more widespread than just the current administration.

The chiefs of defence staff (so serving members of the forces) have for years seemingly viewed budgets as a figure to be aimed at, rather than achieved, and it's this thinking which has led the Government to say 'enough' I think. The decision taken then is that if Chinooks are required for Afghanistan (and everybody says they are) then they will have to be funded from within existing budgets, as there is no more 'in the pot' so to speak. This is a break from what has happened before where wars are fought from contingency budgets, but when that budget is gone, what are they to do?

I know some people have expressed views that we shouldn't be supporting other countries in their climate change ambitions, and using it to keep places like Cottesmore open, but that money is a drop in the ocean compared to overall expenditure so not really a factor, and it doesn't solve the long term problem - something that short term governments have never been good at anyway!

It's not just defence under the cosh, I work in Policing and can tell you that billions are being shaved from Police Force budgets also, except that nothing as iconic and emotive as an airbase and aircraft will be axed. More like the scrapping of capital building programs, training, technology projects, and staff cuts across the board. This time last year, there was a panel that was trying to decide what projects to trim from the National Policing Strategy, but now they are trying to decide what we can afford to do at all.

The fact is, Britain has no money, and this is the tip of the iceberg I fear as I'm sure the Strategic Defence Review will confirm next year.

So, as much as I am upset about the apparent loss of Cottesmore (and as a local I'm impacted by it as well, and yes, that includes being concerned about what they do with it afterwards) this morning it all feels a little bit inevitable really, and dare I say it, necessary? Everybody will go through some pain yet I think, not just defence, as economically speaking we are a long long way from out of the woods in the UK.

[garyscott]

Forum set up to oppose the closure of Cottesmore and support those affected by it...

http://rafcottesmore.co.uk/forum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheers

Signed in!

[Sheff]

I'm more inclined to think that what will happen is one squadron at Cottesmore will disband in March and then in June we'll have the Defence Review which will announce the disposal of the whole fleet in 2011. I don't think there's any way that the Harriers will survive the Defence Review, it's more a question of whether the F-35 will scrape-through as a replacement.

[f-4]

Ainsworth's speech yesterday very much said the MoD's looking at a two-platform fast jet fleet in the future, "Typhoon & F-35".

"The other key adjustments we are making to the current programme are as follows. In line with our current aspirations to reduce to two fast jet types-the Typhoon and joint strike fighter-we will pursue without delay the Typhoon future capability programme phase 2. This is fundamental to the development of its multi-role capability and integration with the latest weapons. We will reduce now the size of our Harrier fast jet force by one squadron, close RAF Cottesmore and consolidate the Harrier force at RAF Wittering. This will maintain our joint carrier-based combat air capability. We plan to reduce our Tornado and Harrier force by a further one or two squadrons; decisions on the make-up of our future force will be taken in the defence review."

[Blackcat1]

Joined!! thanks for the link

[Sheff]

Ainsworth's speech yesterday very much said the MoD's looking at a two-platform fast jet fleet in the future

Sounds like a guarantee that the F-35 will be ditched then!

[Dunk]

These so called savings by shutting Cottesmore will cost a fortune.

Wittering doesnt have a radar, doesnt provide a radar service, all of this is done from Cottesmore! All wittering have is a Visual control point in the Tower.

So to relocate the radar head to Wittering, setting up, moving equipment, refitting the Wittering tower is going to host millions upon millions of pounds.

The planned relocation of the Brize radar from the Northside to the South side (so they can build more accom on base) was a frightening figure, and that is with all the current equipment being in situ.

This is just one of the things to be considered, other factors such as stores, schooling, housing, transport etc will add to the ever incresing cost of closing a base.

When Portland shut they said it would save something like £20 million over 4 years. The actual cost to relocate units/families and close the base was 5 times that amount!

Baring in mind these costs, I can see this so called relocation to Wittering being a smoke screen and another snap announcement saying Harrier and Wittering will also close being made some time early next year.

[Sheff]

Ahh poor old Alan Duncan. How we laughed when we read his stupid comments about demanding that units continue to be based at Cottesmore when he must have known that he would have been far wiser to keep his mouth shut. Now that the announcement has been made he's desperately trying to sound like he's fighting the local cause even though he must know that he's wasting his (and our) time. It's not as if anybody in the Government/MoD is going to listen to a word he says. Bless... ain't it a shame that he didn't do more when the closure threat first emerged - over a year ago! What an idiot, I love his line; "In my view RAF Cottesmore should remain open". Brilliant, good argument, I'm sure Ainsworth will change his mind then!

Dunk -
So to relocate the radar head to Wittering, setting up, moving equipment, refitting the Wittering tower is going to host millions upon millions of pounds.

Like you say, anyone would think that the whole relocation story was just another bit of shameless spin doctoring...

[garethbrum]

Interesting that he says the local Council is shocked.

The leader of the council didn't seem that shocked when they interviewed him on Tuesday morning - basically said they knew it was going to close at some point anyway and that they would be working with the RAF to minimise the effects.

[f-4]

Found this while rummaging around the web today:





I've no idea what's involved in moving the ability to Wittering, but guess it won't be quick or cheap.

[f-4]

Found this comment on The Navy Net re the force at Wittering by March 2011:

"There will be 20 Airframes. 8 deployable with each Sqn. 14 Pilots on each Sqn."

[garethbrum]

As i've put in posts before (and balders has mentioned it),money is been given away to foreign countries etc,etc,..i think theres more to these idiotic,underhanded,slimy, scheming cut-backs..than meets the eye,Gordon "robbing bast**d" Brown is up to something big time,and not letting on what it is,this goverment are just like gangsters,remember the days of 2 Jags Prescott,went around like somebody off Minder,shooting his mouth off,and punching a man in his!!,that's the mentality of this labour goverment,they don't and will not listen, and bulldoze past anyone that gets in their way,they can't see what might happen in the future,you all might be tired of what i post,but i will mention it again..The world is still a dangerous place with rogue countries and dictators /warlords,piracy,Iran,China,Russia,Syria,Somalia,North Korea,countries with civil wars,wanting to get their hands on nuclear weapons..the list goes on,also in the future,the UK can't rely on the United States Of America,to run to our aid,there might be an un-certain political climate arise,and we will have to go it alone,then what..WE HAVE NO ARMED FORCES TO DO THE JOB OF DEFENDING THIS COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!,because of irresponsible cut-backs,would things be still the same,if the cold-war was still on,i'm sure a lot more bases would still be open,and as mentioned by others,where are all the military top-brass,they are the true experts,they should be saying a lot about what is going off,and i don't see the usual heated argument / shouting in parliament /commons,it's just like nobody is bothered..let them get on with it attitude.

When will people realise that the military top brass made these decisions?

Right or wrong - they offered up everything you saw in the announcement.

[cottesmore09]

Well done Flying Figgis with your efforts to keep Cottesmore open. Your forum is great and so is your Facebook group. If cottesmore is to stay open i think we will be thanking you

Thanks, Cottesmore09 (sismore)