Warrantless surveillance of foreign nationals

[slogen51]

Something that caught my eye from Google news feeds :
US Defense[sic] Policy bill has been approved by Senate and includes the following curious snippet as reported by CNN


'Warrantless surveillance of foreign nationals
The bill includes a short-term extension of a controversial law that permits warrantless surveillance of foreign nationals, extending authority for the program through April 19.

The law, Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, enables the US government to obtain intelligence by collecting communications records of non-Americans overseas who are using US-based communications services.

Supporters argue Section 702 is a critical tool for safeguarding national security, but it has come under scrutiny from some lawmakers over alleged misuse.'

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/12/13/poli ... index.html


I wonder what is considered to be " US-based communications services" Gmail? WhatsApp?

[iainpeden]

If George Orwell was writing 1984 (retititled 2084??) now, this would be included.

[sdad]

I think an Android phone needs a Google account to work and Apple is American, so it's basically your whole phone.

[Eagle130]

I wonder how this works/fits in with the GDPR regs of 2018
From the Gov.uk web page:
Everyone responsible for using personal data has to follow strict rules called ‘data protection principles’. They must make sure the information is:

• used fairly, lawfully and transparently

• used for specified, explicit purposes

• used in a way that is adequate, relevant and limited to only what is necessary

• accurate and, where necessary, kept up to date

• kept for no longer than is necessary

• handled in a way that ensures appropriate security, including protection against unlawful or unauthorised processing, access, loss, destruction or damage

I think the one in bold might be where this falls flat and possibly gives us in the UK and those in Europe some additional areas of protection. I would struggle to see why the us government would want to explain exactly what purposes they are using said data for, some of the other points also seem pretty tenuous to link but the highlighted one stood out most to me.

By no means am I an expert but just a thought

[STN RAMP RAT]

Ironically, the US government has been threatening to ban Tik Tok, whatever that is , because the Chinese owners of it may leak data to the Chinese Government. Here there is specific legislation that will require the US tech companies to hand over data to the US Government. pot, kettle, black.

Eagle130, I doubt any government intelligence agencies comply with GDPR legislation, I have always made the assumption that anything I put on the internet or transmit electronically could be read by any government, but I am likely too boring to warrant their attention.

[Eagle130]

Suppose that makes sense, it is meant to be applicable to governments but quite possible the case of "meant to" comply as there will always be plausible deniability as an intelligence organisation!

I think that is a good approach to take though, never know where it might end up

[Condor68]

Like RAMPRAT I assumed all data could be stored and read. That is the reason I have always wondered why the Police worried so much about finding phones lap tops etc.I thougnt they could access the info through the comms companys server.With a warrant of course.Either my line or my sons was subject to monitoring years ago when his Carrier ventured to sandier climes,apparatus must have been crap as you could hear clicks when certain words were used.must have been well down the list and not worth the good stuff.

Keith

[C24]

I would not be surprised if it was proven that various agencies monitor FC. Aren’t there “bots” shown below? Another favourite scare of mine is that the computers produced in China are all equipped with back doors

Trust no one and enjoy the holiday week

[Gordyflyer]

When I was a member of BARG and various other aviation enthusiast groups 40 something years ago, I was told by a senior society member that MI5 had a membership list.

[raameagle]

FC along with all of the spotters websites, eGroups, mailing lists etc etc are monitored...

Regards

Mark

I would not be surprised if it was proven that various agencies monitor FC. Aren’t there “bots” shown below? Another favourite scare of mine is that the computers produced in China are all equipped with back doors

Trust no one and enjoy the holiday week

[slogen51]

I would not be surprised if it was proven that various agencies monitor FC. Aren’t there “bots” shown below? Another favourite scare of mine is that the computers produced in China are all equipped with back doors

Trust no one and enjoy the holiday week

Traditionally a backdoor should be thought of as an exit rather than an entrance!

Since 9/11 covert surveillance is something that happens regardless whether we like it or not and the authorities will say it's all part of keeping us safe - which it probably does do.

I wonder if a time will come when the presence of a Chinese visa on your passport will prohibit entry to the USA without going through an interview process as is the case with a short list of other countries which I can't remember but I think not unsurprisingly Iran is on the list.

[Alf]

The US list is OK, it just means you cannot get an ESTA, so instead you have to apply for a B1 10 year visa. Did this a while ago and it was a very straight forward process and a trip to the US embassy in London. They give you the visa the same day. Never had an issue entering the US with it and it’s valid for 10 years. Had to do this following a trip to the air show in North Korea a few years ago.

[STN RAMP RAT]

visits to the following countries that prevent you from getting an ESTA are

Visited after March 2011 - Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen.

None of the above will affect most people however Cuba was quietly added to the list on July 6th 2023, and you cannot receive an ESTA if you have visited Cuba after 1st January 2021. Given Cuba is a popular holiday destination I imagine a lot of people won't realise they can't get an ESTA until they apply.