FighterControl

Just a question really

Read in the news of four more deaths in the English channel after a migrant dingy got into trouble and started sinking.

According to the BBC 35% of people arriving in small boats are from Albania!

I was sent a YouTube of the home affairs committee questioning the Albania ambassador recently and the question basically was why do economic migrants from Albania pay thousands to gangs and risk their lives crossing the channel in a rubber dingy when you can fly from Tirana to Luton for less than £150???

The point being that to fly from Tirana to London the passenger would need to show their passport on arrival at Luton. Big deal you ask as everyone else has to show a passport. The premise of the argument therefore is that individuals would be identified from their documents and therefore criminals could be identified which means they have to enter this country illegally by boat otherwise they would simply fly?


Tim Lougbton of the home affairs committee asked some very good questions

https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/4 ... n=09:51:19

More direct questions but no answers coming but a good watch

https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/4 ... n=10:05:44

Aren’t they arriving in small boats from France?

Aren't some of these immigrants children? They must classify criminals from a very early age in Albania...

From what I deduce from the media a vast majority of the Albanians coming over are young men who can be nothing but ineligible economic migrants or those seeing to escape the Albanian justice system.
Anybody bringing a child, or sending one, in the dinghies is putting that child into significant danger and therefore should also be prosecuted under British law.
If we set up proper migrant operations in, for example, Iraq and other similar countries, charge potential migrants £5000 a time for biometric papers, a flight to the uk and help getting a job with any body arriving by any other means being returned with no chance of appeal we might get the migration we need and make a profit.

A very emotive subject and I veer between being hugely sympathetic to those on the boats and demanding the reinstallation of minefields just off the French coast.

Mark wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:15 am

Aren't some of these immigrants children? They must classify criminals from a very early age in Albania...

Don’t see many children in the photos they publish in the tabloids , mostly young men with gold rings and expensive modern mobile phones I’m told

We have foreign 'beggars' in our town occasionally; they all have the same blue knee-warmers under which they hide their smarties, (Oxford comma?) and similar cardboard 'homeless, hungry, god bless' signs. I've identified two vehicles they DRIVE into town and passed the numbers to the Police. Homeless? Where do they charge up their smarties?
'Scenic in the mist' aka Roger

H.A.Bucken wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 15, 2022 11:09 am

We have foreign 'beggars' in our town occasionally; they all have the same blue knee-warmers under which they hide their smarties, (Oxford comma?) and similar cardboard 'homeless, hungry, god bless' signs. I've identified two vehicles they DRIVE into town and passed the numbers to the Police. Homeless? Where do they charge up their smarties?
'Scenic in the mist' aka Roger

Yes my town also has a lot more these days, not sure if all are genuine after reading your post I doubt it , I don't see them when it's very cold!

Blackcat1 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:05 am

Mark wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:15 am

Aren't some of these immigrants children? They must classify criminals from a very early age in Albania...

Don’t see many children in the photos they publish in the tabloids , mostly young men with gold rings and expensive modern mobile phones I’m told

You still read tabloids after the insane inaccuracies noted here regarding aviation articles? Why? Don't you think journalists are equally incompetent in reporting non-aviation stories too?

The question is why do these people from Albania risk their lives and the lives of their children in a perilous journey to the UK who then claim asylum from Albania why don't they simply come on a wizz air flight for a visit/holiday and then refuse to go home and claim asylum - there is no need to pay gangs money for the crossing IF you have a valid passport . The inference is that these travellers claiming asylum don't have a passport and documents or do not want to show them or perhaps a criminal reason. I don't know the answer but is is peculiar

Mark wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:41 pm

Blackcat1 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:05 am

Mark wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:15 am

Aren't some of these immigrants children? They must classify criminals from a very early age in Albania...

Don’t see many children in the photos they publish in the tabloids , mostly young men with gold rings and expensive modern mobile phones I’m told

You still read tabloids after the insane inaccuracies noted here regarding aviation articles? Why? Don't you think journalists are equally incompetent in reporting non-aviation stories too?

If you look you will find accurate and well written aviation articles just as there is good journalism covering this subject and others

slogen51 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:47 pm

The question is why do these people from Albania risk their lives and the lives of their children in a perilous journey to the UK who then claim asylum from Albania why don't they simply come on a wizz air flight for a visit/holiday and then refuse to go home and claim asylum - there is no need to pay gangs money for the crossing IF you have a valid passport . The inference is that these travellers claiming asylum don't have a passport and documents or do not want to show them or perhaps a criminal reason. I don't know the answer but is is peculiar

I work for a shipping line that used (pre-covid) to take paying passengers on what is known as 'cargo cruises' and we had Albanian passengers with the correct paperwork AND a return ticket that claimed asylum upon disembarkation in Canada. There was nothing legally that could be done about from the perspective of the Port of Origin...

slogen51 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:49 pm

Mark wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:41 pm

Blackcat1 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:05 am

Don’t see many children in the photos they publish in the tabloids , mostly young men with gold rings and expensive modern mobile phones I’m told

You still read tabloids after the insane inaccuracies noted here regarding aviation articles? Why? Don't you think journalists are equally incompetent in reporting non-aviation stories too?

If you look you will find accurate and well written aviation articles just as there is good journalism covering this subject and others

I'll buy a lottery ticket next time I see one of those, because i personally haven't seen anything of that nature outside of the aviation publishing world.. certainly not from the tabloid press!!

Mark wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:52 pm

slogen51 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:47 pm

The question is why do these people from Albania risk their lives and the lives of their children in a perilous journey to the UK who then claim asylum from Albania why don't they simply come on a wizz air flight for a visit/holiday and then refuse to go home and claim asylum - there is no need to pay gangs money for the crossing IF you have a valid passport . The inference is that these travellers claiming asylum don't have a passport and documents or do not want to show them or perhaps a criminal reason. I don't know the answer but is is peculiar

I work for a shipping line that used (pre-covid) to take paying passengers on what is known as 'cargo cruises' and we had Albanian passengers with the correct paperwork AND a return ticket that claimed asylum upon disembarkation in Canada. There was nothing legally that could be done about from the perspective of the Port of Origin...

That's what I mean - they had the paper work and claimed asylum which is their right - the appeal can be turned down but at least they had paper work and didn't use an illegal entry

slogen51 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:57 pm

Mark wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:52 pm

slogen51 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:47 pm

The question is why do these people from Albania risk their lives and the lives of their children in a perilous journey to the UK who then claim asylum from Albania why don't they simply come on a wizz air flight for a visit/holiday and then refuse to go home and claim asylum - there is no need to pay gangs money for the crossing IF you have a valid passport . The inference is that these travellers claiming asylum don't have a passport and documents or do not want to show them or perhaps a criminal reason. I don't know the answer but is is peculiar

I work for a shipping line that used (pre-covid) to take paying passengers on what is known as 'cargo cruises' and we had Albanian passengers with the correct paperwork AND a return ticket that claimed asylum upon disembarkation in Canada. There was nothing legally that could be done about from the perspective of the Port of Origin...

That's what I mean - they had the paper work and claimed asylum which is their right - the appeal can be turned down but at least they had paper work and didn't use an illegal entry

To be fair, my passport has expired. If civil war broke out tomorrow (yeah, unlikely, I know...) i'd probably have to resort to something similar.. One of the biggest Ports they depart from as Stowaways is Santander in Northern Spain. Volumes dropped off when the CLDN service stopped from there, but i'm expecting it to peak again now that CLDN have bought Seatruck and added Santander to their rotation..

Your passport has expired: if you had to go to Italy for example you would renew your passport rather than buy a rubber dingy and row across the channel - exactly my point

PS it's much much easier to renew from a valid passport rather than letting it expire! Careless

slogen51 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 15, 2022 2:12 pm

Your password has expired: if you had to go to Italy for example you would renew your passport rather than buy a rubber dingy and row across the channel - exactly my point

PS it's much much easier to renew from a valid passport rather than letting it expire! Careless

If only i had the expendable cash to afford a holiday abroad I may well have renewed it...

slogen51 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 15, 2022 2:12 pm

Your password has expired: if you had to go to Italy for example you would renew your passport rather than buy a rubber dingy and row across the channel - exactly my point

PS it's much much easier to renew from a valid passport rather than letting it expire! Careless

I had this question in my head a while back, this is the article I found that kind of answered my question.

https://www.liberties.eu/en/stories/why ... lane/16316

It’s EU focussed, but substitute EU for UK and it’s useful info.

It’s a specific offence to knowingly travel to the UK under a tourist visa with the intention of staying. There’s also a high probability that you wouldn’t be allowed to board the aircraft anyway, as per the above link.

I’m not sure how to stop the small boats problem, not without significant investment and resources.

I sometimes wonder if allowing refugees to claim asylum in France would stop the boat traffic, given many of the people arriving by boat (90%) claim asylum anyway and many of them are successful in gaining refugee status and are granted leave to remain. As I understand it, unless the government has setup a ‘safe route’ scheme like for Afghans or Ukrainians, asylum has to be applied for here in the UK.

I see Tooks is unsure how to stop the small boats, patrol our territorial waters and stop them entering, turn them back, they have no right to invade our shores. France is perceived to be safe but excuse my cynicism, England is a soft touch where they can exploit the system and France us only too happy to shift the burden. It matters not whether they are Albanian, Afghan or whatever, they have to be stopped, England is not Lady Bountiful, come one come all, we cannot keep taking them in, we are full. And before someone wrings their hands and declares they need to be ‘rescued’ from the channel, these people cynically exploit the authorities knowing that RNLI and Border Force vessels will taxi them in to the UK. They present a fait accompli which we fall for. Given the foregoing, are the lifeboats and border vessels guilty of aiding and abetting illegal entry into the UK. Perhaps, if they must involve themselves, they could return them whence they came….France. It just needs resolve and guts to implement.

Bobcode wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:30 pm

I see Tooks is unsure how to stop the small boats

Hey, don’t shoot the messenger!

I was only saying I don’t see how they’ll be stopped unless a different approach is taken, and with more resources. What is being done at the moment is having little to no effect.

My link was to try and explain why people take boats over an airline ticket, I don’t wish to get involved in the wider debate.

Mark wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:41 pm

Blackcat1 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:05 am

Mark wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:15 am

Aren't some of these immigrants children? They must classify criminals from a very early age in Albania...

Don’t see many children in the photos they publish in the tabloids , mostly young men with gold rings and expensive modern mobile phones I’m told

You still read tabloids after the insane inaccuracies noted here regarding aviation articles? Why? Don't you think journalists are equally incompetent in reporting non-aviation stories too?

I said “I’m told” . Haven’t read a tabloid in ages ! but if I run out of toilet paper......