Royal Mail

[Condor68]

While discussing upcoming stoppages,I realised that during the Lockdown and the period up to now.Any mail or package that I was expecting had been delivered either on time or early.Even had an e mail from Royal Mail apologising for a delay and as I read it I saw postman heading of down the path after delivering said package on time.I know it isnt like that everywhere but we seem to have a great bunch in this area.If there are any Postal workers in the Forum Thank you and all your colleagues.

Might not be so lucky over next few weeks??

Keith

[paddyboy]

Hi Keith

As a recently retired Postie, I still meet and keep in touch with many of my ex-colleagues and I know it is simply criminal what the CEO and his asset-stripping gang of thugs are trying to do to RM

It is not about any pay offer in the slightest, I can assure you

As for what they are being told to do and not to do, it beggars belief

I’ll stop now before I really go into one

[Condor68]

I was with Openreach and BT for almost 40 years and I dont think it is possible to run a company so badly for so long accidently.Any constructive suggestions were blocked at first line management as they were scared to speak up.Therefoe affecting quality efficiency and moralOne of my bosses actually asked me if I had the nerve to say anything to Senior Management.He was gutted when I showed him my e mails from our Chief Executive and another Senior manager. They had said I cant fix it if I dont know about it soI opened up with both barrels and over a couple years got quite a few sorted.He was really p....d off when I showed him the non BT Christmas card from the CEO.She even sent me a card when I retired even though she had moved on by then..

Enjoy the retirement Paddy

[Tally-ho]

I’ll stop now before I really go into one

If at any time you wish to elaborate, I for one would appreciate to hear the truth. Coming from you, I know it would be the truth.

[iainpeden]

The strikes affecting the country at present are concerning and disruptive and certainly worth sensible discussion, so I hope this doesn’t degenerate into the mud-slinging of the “false start” at the end of last week. I’ll start by saying that I think the 10% inflation figure has been a psychological trigger for lots of people – “enough is enough” as it were.

My understanding of the RM dispute, from the news and a postie acquaintance at the gym, is that a below inflation offer has been made, at least partly paid by the changes in working conditions. He also tells me that the CEA has awarded himself a six-figure sum of share options, while we are told that the business is losing £1m a day. Not a good look for the boss to get a big bonus on a loss making industry. However, I’m also aware that large sums have been invested in automating the system, that the letter business has collapsed due to e-mail etc, that the leadership of the business want to concentrate more on the parcel market, that courier firms are providing huge competition and that the business has the huge burden of having to deliver to every house in the land six days a week. (Paddy please correct me if I’m wrong)

I’m not sure where I stand on the rail disputes, partly because I get the impression the union bosses are carrying on a political battle with the government. I am aware that huge sums were spent on the railways during the pandemic, which was vitally necessary but also featherbedded the employees against the travails that many faced. I’d also like to know more about the overall pay conditions of rail workers; pension rights, redundancy terms, etc. As for changes of conditions, I get the unions’ concerns about driver only trains but don’t understand the view that replacing rail checkers (how many are killed every year) with technology is wrong.

Nurses, ambulance staff, teachers: that 10% trigger again I think. Figures I have picked up over the last couple of weeks. NHS staff and education staff have lost between 20% and 25% of their buying power over the last decade. Over the last year the average (whatever that is) pay rise in the public sector is 2.2%, against 6% in the private sector and 10% (+) inflation. I know from the school where I'm a governor that fewer than 50% of trainee teachers last 5 years once qualified and many assistants, highly trained and very effective, are leaving to jobs in the local supermarkets

I also find it interesting that the Scottish government tactic of giving a fixed increase – say £1500 per year – seems to be more accepted than a percentage increase. Maybe it’s easier to understand.

I also think (and Lord Kenneth Baker {Thatcher government} agrees with me ){1.pm News Radio 4 today} that the government refusing to get involved with negotiations is a mistake and that the various Secretary of State should talk and not pretend it’s nothing to do with them.

I‘ll finish by saying that I think very, very few people go on strike just for the sake of it – Posties have already lost £2000 – and it goes totally against the grain for most NHS and education staff – and in the past and for a total of 4 days in a 38 year career I did exercise my right to withdraw my labour.

[paddyboy]

The trouble initially started way back when RM was privatised. Shareholders and their dividends became prioritised over investment in an ageing system, and the result was that when new companies sprang up, RM was immediately on the back foot. Years passed with a succession of CEOs who had never delivered a letter or packet and had no real knowledge of the actual job. When it was realised modernisation/automation of sorting was desperately needed, the cost was horrendous. Rounds became ever bigger, meaning the pressure on staff both in and out of the depots rose, resulting in some mail/packets being brought back, unless the staff involved were prepared to stay out on duty and do overtime. The Christmas pressure period was a time when lots of extra, temporary, staff would be taken on, along with an extra fleet of hired vans, to ensure everything was delivered, along with as much overtime as was required. My last Christmas was somewhat different, in that we were short of staff, short of vans, and I was still delivering Christmas packets on the day I retired in late January: shameful level of service, imho. I have been told by a couple of guys in my old depot that packets are now the priority, at the expense of letters/cards, with little or no overtime offered to complete a round: just bring it back. This only compounds the problem, as any returned mail must be re-sorted the next day into the frame along with the new mail, putting even more pressure on staff. No surprise that a significant number of the old brigade have put in for an early voluntary retirement package, but these are as rare as hen’s teeth. The current CEO would like nothing better than to find a way of getting rid of the current staff/wages/sick pay/pension package and bring in a new lot with significantly degraded levels of remunerations and, more importantly, hours. The current hours, roughly 0630-1430 suits a lot of staff: family members able to do at least 1 school run a day and have quality time with the rest of the family, and always free on a Sunday. Just try pinning him down on new hours/days of work if you can. I loved the job and my customers were almost all first name people: I’ve nipped to a shop to get some milk or tea for an old person who was short of them and not too mobile. I’ve caught budgies that had got loose and replaced a loose down pipe or two. I always realised I might be the only human contact some of my more elderly customers had. Sadly, I suspect that sort of thing is both looked down on by current management and simply not time-possible. I’m just glad I’m out of it.

Sorry for going on, but I’ve tried to be as balanced as I can from what I have been told.

Like I have said, the pay rise is only a part of the dispute, and not the major part either.

[iainpeden]

Thanks Paddy, good to get that balanced insider view.
I hope you have a restful Christmas time, but I do see you haven’t yet taken advantage of one of the main retirement benefits- the chance to turn off the alarm and get a lie in.
All the best
Iain

[Pune]

Thanks Paddy, always good to get real facts and not what the media spout, there is always more to industrial action than money, I was out for 11 weeks in 77/78 when I was in the Fire Service, again it was about working conditions, which had an effect on pay naturally.
Good luck to all those taking action, I'm supporting you all I can.
Winter of discontent, I seem to have heard this before!!
Cheers
Pune

[Tally-ho]

There is a small militant hard-left, ensconced within society, show-boating as trade unionists, which is harming all and sundry around them. They couldn't care less about society and their fellow countrymen they are supposed to serve. Yes SERVE, strikers chose their jobs and careers, they can resign and leave anytime. The sooner the better.
The enemy within, right amongst us, is causing more harm than any foreign power can hope to achieve - short from full scale war. Wake up and smell the coffee, look at the damage and hardship foisted upon the vast majority of honest hard working people!

Hate away ... hate away ...

[iainpeden]

I'll actually agree with your first sentence, although I'd add the word "very" before small. I also think you are suggesting that unions have more power than, currently, they actually have. In the 70s and 80s (winter of discontent, miners' strike etc) there were hugely more days lost to strike action than at present. Recent figures I heard were that in that period there were 13m union members from a workforce of 25m; membership now 6m against 31m. I also thought it amusing this morning on the Today programme to hear Mick Lynch (RMT, which is probably the last of the heavy industry unions which led the disputes of the 70s and 80s {the others being the NUM and the NUJ}) call out the BBC for its right wing propaganda - the Conservatives have spent the last 50 years claiming the exact opposite.

I'd be interested to know the industry you work in; almost certainly you will be benefiting from rights won by union representation. Here I'm thinking collective bargaining, redundancy rights, pension rights, sickness right and so on. I'd also suggest you look at the history of The Chartist movement - basically the first working class mass movement - which ultimately led to the universal franchise - the right to vote.

As for serving; quite an emotive term. It was a privilege to work as a teacher then headteacher for 38 years. The salary was reasonable, my pension (which was a contributory scheme) is liveable and secure and the feedback I received from children and parents over the years priceless. However, we now have teachers and nurses using foodbanks to feed families. I'll reiterate that 25% drop in buying power over the last 10 years and the fact (fact) that teachers, teaching assistants and NHS staff are leaving to more lucrative jobs in warehouses and supermarkets.

When the government has made such a mess of the economy - and I do agree that many of the inflationary pressures are international and out of their control - and are clearly not listening then there's little else people can do.

Moving on to the government and it's argument that inflation matching rises will lead to a wage induced inflation spiral; in the 70s and 80s this was certainly the case but now that inflation is primary caused by international events the argument doesn't stack up.

And to finish - "honest, hard working people" - how else would you describe hundreds of thousands of post staff, education staff, driving examiners, border staff, NHS staff and rail workers - they can't all be left wing agitators.

[Pune]

I'll actually agree with your first sentence, although I'd add the word "very" before small. I also think you are suggesting that unions have more power than, currently, they actually have. In the 70s and 80s (winter of discontent, miners' strike etc) there were hugely more days lost to strike action than at present. Recent figures I heard were that in that period there were 13m union members from a workforce of 25m; membership now 6m against 31m. I also thought it amusing this morning on the Today programme to hear Mick Lynch (RMT, which is probably the last of the heavy industry unions which led the disputes of the 70s and 80s {the others being the NUM and the NUJ}) call out the BBC for its right wing propaganda - the Conservatives have spent the last 50 years claiming the exact opposite.

I'd be interested to know the industry you work in; almost certainly you will be benefiting from rights won by union representation. Here I'm thinking collective bargaining, redundancy rights, pension rights, sickness right and so on. I'd also suggest you look at the history of The Chartist movement - basically the first working class mass movement - which ultimately led to the universal franchise - the right to vote.

As for serving; quite an emotive term. It was a privilege to work as a teacher then headteacher for 38 years. The salary was reasonable, my pension (which was a contributory scheme) is liveable and secure and the feedback I received from children and parents over the years priceless. However, we now have teachers and nurses using foodbanks to feed families. I'll reiterate that 25% drop in buying power over the last 10 years and the fact (fact) that teachers, teaching assistants and NHS staff are leaving to more lucrative jobs in warehouses and supermarkets.

When the government has made such a mess of the economy - and I do agree that many of the inflationary pressures are international and out of their control - and are clearly not listening then there's little else people can do.

Moving on to the government and it's argument that inflation matching rises will lead to a wage induced inflation spiral; in the 70s and 80s this was certainly the case but now that inflation is primary caused by international events the argument doesn't stack up.

And to finish - "honest, hard working people" - how else would you describe hundreds of thousands of post staff, education staff, driving examiners, border staff, NHS staff and rail workers - they can't all be left wing agitators.

Very very well put sir, articulate and to the point, particularly the second paragraph; I think someone has a real issue with workers rights.

[slogen51]

Just taken the crimble cards to the post office to be told they won't be going far for a few days because of industrial action - not a great hardship I agree.

I have no problems with trade unions protecting workers rights. I do have a problem with unions holding the country to ransom sometimes motivated by trying to overthrow the ( usually Tory) government.

[iainpeden]

As I said to Tally-Ho, just examine the various benefits you will have gained through worker actions in your work place; sick pay, H&S and so on. With the possible exception of the RMT, it's not the unions holding the country to ransom, it's ordinary hard working people, mostly in the public sector, who for a decade have seen living standards fall with pay freezes who have reached breaking point. Think of those wonderful nurses who treated you with your recent problem - did you ask them what they felt about taking action?

Also remember that people have free choice on whether to follow the union instructions - you cannot divorce union members from "the tax payer" from working people because its all the same cohort. We're years on from the British Leyland closed shop, the Grunwick dispute and "scabs". Remember you're talking about intelligent, independent people in teachers, posties, nurses, midwives, physiotherapists (even driving examiners - sorry Raptor!).

[slogen51]

" Think of those wonderful nurses who treated you with your recent problem - did you ask them what they felt about taking action?"

Flipping cheek! During my week in hospital I naturally spent quite a bit of time talking to the nurses and saw for myself, like most of us have also witnessed ' just how difficult the job is plus the long hours. I know that at least two nurses were holding down two jobs - coming off night shift to go straight into a job working in a shop in Norwich.

So yes I would be prepared to pay more tax to increase nurses pay . I understand they asked for 5% they probably deserve at least 20%.

Most ordinary hard working people are not in a union - I wasn't. If I wasn't happy with my pay all I could do was change jobs or try earn promotion to a higher pay scale.

When I mentioned holding the country to ransom I am referring to the rail workers and postal workers for example and we all know of the infamous miners strikes during the 1970s and 1980s.

All economies rely on a large pool of unskilled labour - not that the people are unskilled just that the role is unskilled so how much is it worth paying someone to put a letter through your letter box? Paradoxically we have been used to cheap postage rates - cost me 95 pence to send a letter from Norfolk to Cheltenham to arrive the next day! Ridiculously cheap? So if the postal workers want more wages perhaps the price of a stamp should double or treble? And let the market decide whether they want to pay that that price or send less mail resulting in fewer but better paid workers.

[slogen51]

I guess like everything in life it is all down to supply and demand. A large supply of unskilled labour that is constantly being topped up by immigration.

It was interesting during Covid lockdown that there was such a demand for delivery drivers that companies like Tesco's had to offer higher wages simply to attract staff.

By the way I don't think Postal workers are holding anyone to ransom they simply want their wages to keep pace with inflation that is itself fuelled by pay increases and also makes exporting companies inefficient or uncompetitive in a global market. Arthur Scargill and the NUM on the other hand .......

I understand rail workers excluding drivers average £25K per year which seems impossible for a single person to live on. But I remember when £25K was seen as executive pay - the damaging effects of inflation

[raptor9]

Hi, Iain. Driving Instructor for 39 years. Never a Driving Examiner. I was too intelligent for that................. Merry Christmas to you and yours. Hope you are enjoying your retirement.

[Blackcat1]

Hi, Iain. Driving Instructor for 39 years. Never a Driving Examiner. I was too intelligent for that................. Merry Christmas to you and yours. Hope you are enjoying your retirement.

Yes driving examiners only seem to pass the crazy kids around here who seem to crash their Crash their cars just after passing

[iainpeden]

Hi Mike (for the uninitiated Slogen51), it looks like we agree over being unsure of the motives of Mick Lynch.
As we listen more and more though to the rank and file of rail workers they seem to have a genuine concern over rail safety leading from proposed changes.
However having listened to the general secretary of the CWU this morning and the on-going debate about RM (and Paddy’s information of course) it seems to me that the RM management are doing a good job of ruining the service. Examples include agency workers put up in hotels and never used, the foreign hedge fund owning a quarter of the business, proposals for worse terms, conditions and pay for new entrants. So I’m convinced the action is justified.

John, a Merry Christmas to you and yours and a healthy new year to all.

PS TallyHo, you haven’t let us know yet about your job.

[Pune]

"PS TallyHo, you haven’t let us know yet about your job."

I think you'll be waiting a while for that Ian.
Take care and have a great festive time and a wonderful 2023.
Cheers
Pune

[Tally-ho]

PS TallyHo, you haven’t let us know yet about your job.

"PS TallyHo, you haven’t let us know yet about your job."

I think you'll be waiting a while for that Ian.
Take care and have a great festive time and a wonderful 2023.
Cheers
Pune

Salutations!

Ooh la-la, just like two lovebirds. One having to back the other up, ooh la-la!

Sorry, the bait you are using to lure me onto your rusty hooks is rotten. Pongs like your picket line khazi!