Did you know that registration to Fighter Control is completely free and brings you lots of added features? Find out more....

Scottish Devolution Gaff?

A place to chat and discuss everything and anything thats NOT Military Aviation related. No Civilian Aviation content please. We would be grateful for such inclusions on our sister site - Civilian Aviation.
slogen51
Moderator
Posts: 20654
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:11 am
Location: Norfolk - Mundford - YG-BSM

Scottish Devolution Gaff?

Post by slogen51 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:27 pm

Boris seems to have taken a leaf out of Trump's book of diplomacy by saying "Scottish Devolution is a Disaster"

Oddly this has been leaked from a virtual meeting with Tory MPs and reported by The Sun.

To me it looks like this was said deliberately with some agenda in mind - maybe to stoke up calls for independence?

atech
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:44 pm
Location: Worcester

Re: Scottish Devolution Gaff?

Post by atech » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:19 pm

I think for the United Kingdom as a whole this is a true statement. Devolution may have benefited the Scottish people in the short term, but for the rest of the country it has been a disaster, and in the long term I suspect it will be for the Scots

Its all very well gobbing off saying we can do this and that better, without taking any real responsibility, and despite the fact that a large percentage of your budget is provided by the rest of the UK.

I fear that the scots will be dragged into something and then have severe regrets later when the money has dried up.

turbosix
Posts: 386
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:10 pm
Location: Lincolnshire
Contact:

Re: Scottish Devolution Gaff?

Post by turbosix » Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:59 pm

It is worth remembering that the subject of Scottish independence was dead and buried after the 2014 referendum.

It was Brexit that dug up the ice cold corpse of Scottish independence and gave it the kiss of life.

Boris should keep that in mind when seeking to apportion blame.

User avatar
ChrisCwmbran
Posts: 987
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:30 am
Location: South Wales

Re: Scottish Devolution Gaff?

Post by ChrisCwmbran » Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:51 pm

atech wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:19 pm
I think for the United Kingdom as a whole this is a true statement. Devolution may have benefited the Scottish people in the short term, but for the rest of the country it has been a disaster, and in the long term I suspect it will be for the Scots

Its all very well gobbing off saying we can do this and that better, without taking any real responsibility, and despite the fact that a large percentage of your budget is provided by the rest of the UK.

I fear that the scots will be dragged into something and then have severe regrets later when the money has dried up.
I totally agree.

Welsh devolution is no better.

jeallen01
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun May 11, 2014 3:31 pm

Re: Scottish Devolution Gaff?

Post by jeallen01 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:30 pm

Ever since BJ became Mayor of London, my "description" for him has been "B.....S... Boris" (because that's what he often says/does!) - but I voted Tory regardless because the "alternative" was even less "palatable"!

User avatar
eagle driver
Posts: 10043
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:46 am
Location: knaphill Surrey
Contact:

Re: Scottish Devolution Gaff?

Post by eagle driver » Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:23 pm

England should apply for devolution from Boris the First The buffoon is a walking disaster area.

ArabJazzie
Posts: 1462
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:11 am

Re: Scottish Devolution Gaff?

Post by ArabJazzie » Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:06 pm

As far as im concerned, Boris can keep up the good work and we will see where it ends up. But i would say that as a Scotsman!
atech wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:19 pm
I think for the United Kingdom as a whole this is a true statement. Devolution may have benefited the Scottish people in the short term, but for the rest of the country it has been a disaster, and in the long term I suspect it will be for the Scots

Its all very well gobbing off saying we can do this and that better, without taking any real responsibility, and despite the fact that a large percentage of your budget is provided by the rest of the UK.

I fear that the scots will be dragged into something and then have severe regrets later when the money has dried up.
Have you actually got anything to back that up? As an independence seeking Scot, i obviously have a more positive outlook on our prospects up here. But i keep seeing the "We hold all the cards" narrative rolled out at times like these. But can you back this up?

My counter for the gobbing off bit is by pointing to the difference in how each respective government dealt with this damn virus. I think we were doing better, and i think this can be commuted to how we would run our own affairs.

But again, have you got anything to support your fears for us Scots?

slogen51
Moderator
Posts: 20654
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:11 am
Location: Norfolk - Mundford - YG-BSM

Re: Scottish Devolution Gaff?

Post by slogen51 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:13 am

Boris might be a buffoon but he isn't stupid.

I think he deliberately made these remarks to create political unrest and strengthen the SNP case for a second referendum? I don't know why but it is interesting nonetheless.

atech
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:44 pm
Location: Worcester

Re: Scottish Devolution Gaff?

Post by atech » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:33 am

But again, have you got anything to support your fears for us Scots?
In 2019 Scottish public expenditure was 85 billion, revenue generated in Scotland was 69 billion leaving a shortfall of 16 Billion provided by the rest of the UK.

In addition the majority of extra funding to deal with COVID came from the UK purse a fact that Aunty Nicola consistently fails to mention.

Scotland has few natural resources Fish and North Sea Oil as far as I can see. North Sea oil is about finished and if the Scots take ownership of it they will be lumbered with the cost of clean up and decommissioning etc. As for fish , well the EU will do their level best to relieve you of that.

Then there is the cost of defence, the new currency, Scotland's share of the national debt and so on. I have my doubts that a small country like Scotland can generate enough revenue to pay for all those things.

I believe in democracy and I am not opposed to independence if that is what the Scots want, but be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

Try to take the emotion out of the argument and look at the facts, you might decide its not such a good idea.

steamy
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:15 pm

Re: Scottish Devolution Gaff?

Post by steamy » Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:09 pm

FREEDOM !!!

atech
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:44 pm
Location: Worcester

Re: Scottish Devolution Gaff?

Post by atech » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:17 pm

FREEDOM !!!
Good Luck with that

You will swap one democratically elected national government about 300 miles away from Scotland for an autocratic non elected european government about 600 miles away. If Aunty Nic thinks she does not have enough say in the UK, she will have a lot less in the EU.

Of course she will be able to ponce around on the international stage claiming to be an important president of Scotland, go to lots of important fancy EU meetings, quaffing champagne and eating horses doovers, whilst not giving a toss about the poor b***ers in Glasgow who cannot afford to eat, see a doctor, or get a proper education.

Please carry on :roll:

User avatar
ChrisCwmbran
Posts: 987
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:30 am
Location: South Wales

Re: Scottish Devolution Gaff?

Post by ChrisCwmbran » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:50 pm

atech wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:17 pm
FREEDOM !!!
Good Luck with that

You will swap one democratically elected national government about 300 miles away from Scotland for an autocratic non elected european government about 600 miles away. If Aunty Nic thinks she does not have enough say in the UK, she will have a lot less in the EU.

Of course she will be able to ponce around on the international stage claiming to be an important president of Scotland, go to lots of important fancy EU meetings, quaffing champagne and eating horses doovers, whilst not giving a toss about the poor b***ers in Glasgow who cannot afford to eat, see a doctor, or get a proper education.

Please carry on :roll:
I don't think the EU will let the Kilts back in to be honest.

User avatar
plmc135
Posts: 2062
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:32 pm
Location: South Lincolnshire

Re: Scottish Devolution Gaff?

Post by plmc135 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:01 pm

I believe that one of the EU's requirements would be for them to join the Euro. May not have much choice as why should they be allowed to carry on using sterling :halo:

User avatar
Nighthawke
Posts: 3256
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:04 pm

Re: Scottish Devolution Gaff?

Post by Nighthawke » Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:02 pm

Maybe change it to Stirling.

User avatar
ChrisCwmbran
Posts: 987
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:30 am
Location: South Wales

Re: Scottish Devolution Gaff?

Post by ChrisCwmbran » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:20 pm

Given the problems that have surrounded a certain border in Ireland, I think reaching an agreement over the Scottish/English border would be virtually impossible.

At least in the case of the Irish border both parties have an incentive to find an agreement.

In the case of Scottish independence would would be the incentive for the British government to be at all co-operative.

ArabJazzie
Posts: 1462
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:11 am

Re: Scottish Devolution Gaff?

Post by ArabJazzie » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:17 am

atech wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:33 am
But again, have you got anything to support your fears for us Scots?
In 2019 Scottish public expenditure was 85 billion, revenue generated in Scotland was 69 billion leaving a shortfall of 16 Billion provided by the rest of the UK.

In addition the majority of extra funding to deal with COVID came from the UK purse a fact that Aunty Nicola consistently fails to mention.

Scotland has few natural resources Fish and North Sea Oil as far as I can see. North Sea oil is about finished and if the Scots take ownership of it they will be lumbered with the cost of clean up and decommissioning etc. As for fish , well the EU will do their level best to relieve you of that.

Then there is the cost of defence, the new currency, Scotland's share of the national debt and so on. I have my doubts that a small country like Scotland can generate enough revenue to pay for all those things.

I believe in democracy and I am not opposed to independence if that is what the Scots want, but be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

Try to take the emotion out of the argument and look at the facts, you might decide its not such a good idea.
Do you have a link to show where your figures come from as this link shows £81bn and as near as damn it £66bn, so sorry of i dont trust your figures. And yes still a £15bn deficit, but your figures on the face of it appear wrong, and therefore untrustworthy!
https://www.gov.scot/publications/gover ... d%209.2%25.

My Queen Nic actually does mention the extra funding all of the time, along with the fact that there are caveats as to how we spend the money you borrow on our behalf, and how she would like borrowing powers to be expanded for the devolved nations.

I think you need to have a wee bit deeper look into what resources we actually have up here. Wiki is only as good as the info imparted, but it does say we are a net exporter of energy to England. And in times we are in, Oil price is down so hurts revenues, and good ol Trump has tariffed Whisky but i know not how that has affected us.

Never ever have i understood why defence is brought into this? But im not sure i want to have any share of the A330 tanker contracts! But as a Union, we are still part of NATO after Brexit, so why does it have to be a total divorce if Boris helps to split the Union? Countries around the world contribute to our Armed Forces so i cant see why the proud history of Scottish involvement in the Armed Forces of the British Isles cannot be continued. Im sure plenty will say it cant happen, but i just dont see it!

But you had to get all patronizing and express your "doubts that a small country like Scotland can generate enough revenue to pay for all those things". How many countries below 5.5 million residents are doing just fine just now, and many arguable better?

And you know what i wish for? I wish that i was fully governed by politicians that are on many fronts running things better while not fully in control of their own purse, while the other politicians who are in charge of the purse are suspected of profiting during the worst of times!

And im probably wrong, but there is emotion on both sides, and i might find out the grass is greener, but will England?

atech
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:44 pm
Location: Worcester

Re: Scottish Devolution Gaff?

Post by atech » Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:41 am

All i have done is expressed my view and tried to support it with a reasoned argument. My "facts" come from the public domain (not just mainstream media) but I suspect that you would dispute any "facts" that I presented.

If you want my emotional view, I think Nicola Sturgeon is a corrupt little despot who will sell her own country down the drain to get the power she craves. If the Scottish people want to follow her and jump off the cliff (which I suspect many don't but I don't have any "facts") then so be it.

Just go and let the rest of the UK get on with the important issues that are facing us.

The grass may be greener on the other side, but when you've eaten it all, you can't come back and start eating ours.

My last word on the subject

steamy
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:15 pm

Re: Scottish Devolution Gaff?

Post by steamy » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:13 am

atech wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:17 pm
FREEDOM !!!
Good Luck with that

You will swap one democratically elected national government about 300 miles away from Scotland for an autocratic non elected european government about 600 miles away. If Aunty Nic thinks she does not have enough say in the UK, she will have a lot less in the EU.

Of course she will be able to ponce around on the international stage claiming to be an important president of Scotland, go to lots of important fancy EU meetings, quaffing champagne and eating horses doovers, whilst not giving a toss about the poor b***ers in Glasgow who cannot afford to eat, see a doctor, or get a proper education.

Please carry on :roll:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

baz1
Posts: 4198
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:34 am
Location: lincoln between scampton and waddington

Re: Scottish Devolution Gaff?

Post by baz1 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:35 am

and something may pop up some time about Queen Nic and the Alex Salmond saga!

ArabJazzie
Posts: 1462
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:11 am

Re: Scottish Devolution Gaff?

Post by ArabJazzie » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:43 pm

atech wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:41 am
All i have done is expressed my view and tried to support it with a reasoned argument. My "facts" come from the public domain (not just mainstream media) but I suspect that you would dispute any "facts" that I presented.

If you want my emotional view, I think Nicola Sturgeon is a corrupt little despot who will sell her own country down the drain to get the power she craves. If the Scottish people want to follow her and jump off the cliff (which I suspect many don't but I don't have any "facts") then so be it.

Just go and let the rest of the UK get on with the important issues that are facing us.

The grass may be greener on the other side, but when you've eaten it all, you can't come back and start eating ours.

My last word on the subject
Do you have a link to where you got your figures? My link is a .gov site, not media, so your move!

Your emotional view, i have to ask how many times the media have asked Queen Nic searching questions about corruption as opposed to the constant stream we are seeing in England? You know what, i dont hold much respect for Piers Morgan, but maybe you/we need to pay attention to his opinion at times!

Then you show your true colours! So what are the important issues? Privatizing the NHS, Brexit, HS2 missing targets on a wee virus, need i go on?

Someone mentioned Alex smoking gun, but im yet to see the controversy from the Whatsapp messages.

Post Reply

Return to “General Chat”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ArabJazzie, iainpeden, warferry and 19 guests