FighterControl

Reported in the papers RAF has re-written Guy Gibson's Dog Gravestone & left out the name N****r,because it might cause offence. There are for & against arguments on this. As my Grandparents back in the 1930's had a Dog also called N***** . I don't think they realised at that time the name could be classed as racist. Also Scampton is not a public place.
My Neighbours worried though, as when he worked in Cyprus, He rescued a Dog,then found out it is a Coon Hound. As the C word can also be classed as racist. So if anybody asks he just says it's a Hunting Hound. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coonhound

History must always be seen in the context of the time in which it took place; event and date cannot be divorced, neither can spoken language and timeline. I will always refer to the dog by its given name N.gg.r and if you have not matured whereby you grasp my opening sentence, too bad.

I care nothing for the military and historical stupidity of society's immature idiots.

I totally agree history is the past which we cannot change or would want to if it offends so be it . We must all move on and create a better world .

When i worked at Syerston a good while ago i was told the dog was buried there and not Scampton due to the politics with Gibson and the dog.
Glyn

Tally-ho wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:01 pm

History must always be seen in the context of the time in which it took place; event and date cannot be divorced, neither can spoken language and timeline. I will always refer to the dog by its given name N.gg.r and if you have not matured whereby you grasp my opening sentence, too bad.

I care nothing for the military and historical stupidity of society's immature idiots.

I agree completely, to try and change history is impossible, we have to live with it, good, bad or indifferent..

When I saw this story on the BBC News website this morning I thought "Well I've read it all now!"

I realise it's an emotive subject, but as others have already said, can't we simply learn from history rather than try to re-write or erase it?

What's next? Are we going to have the dog's name bleeped out when it's mentioned every time The Dam Busters is shown on telly?

A thought has just occurred to me. When 617 Squadron were at Lossie they used the dog's name as their ops callsign. What do they use now?

Tally-ho wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:01 pm

History must always be seen in the context of the time in which it took place; event and date cannot be divorced, neither can spoken language and timeline. I will always refer to the dog by its given name N.gg.r and if you have not matured whereby you grasp my opening sentence, too bad.

I care nothing for the military and historical stupidity of society's immature idiots.

Summed up perfect Tally Ho

daggerfan wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:48 pm

What's next? Are we going to have the dog's name bleeped out when it's mentioned every time The Dam Busters is shown on telly?

That's all ready happened. When the film used to be shown on maybe ITV or Channel 5 they used to re-edit the word used to Trigger (which for those of us old enough makes you think of a certain horse!)
Then since being on Channel 4 they have dared to show it uncut (scary stuff!). But whether that will continue now is something else.

I give up with this PC brigade! My cat was called Blackie, I have a few friends who are African , whenever they sent me a Christmas card, they would always include Blackie in their Christmas wishes! It never caused them offence! It's pathetic. Guy Gibson's Black Labrador was called Nigger !!!! Get over it snowflakes!! Can I say snowflakes or is that too white!!??

daggerfan wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:48 pm

When I saw this story on the BBC News website this morning I thought "Well I've read it all now!"

I realise it's an emotive subject, but as others have already said, can't we simply learn from history rather than try to re-write or erase it?

What's next? Are we going to have the dog's name bleeped out when it's mentioned every time The Dam Busters is shown on telly?

A thought has just occurred to me. When 617 Squadron were at Lossie they used the dog's name as their ops callsign. What do they use now?

It went from the dog’s name to Blackdog and now is Tallboy I believe.

C'mon now it should be "not so white dog" !

Tally-ho has it right, no one should try applying modern day morals to the past, it is not right to attempt to erase or alter history. Learn from it by all means, but leave the past well alone.

When I was at Marham 617 used the dog's name as a call sign, then it was changed to something else after some objections from another air force. The dog was part of 617's history and that's how it should be. Times have changed we move on but we shouldn't have to rewrite history!!

Well said Vulcan74

Vulcan74 wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:16 pm

When I was at Marham 617 used the dog's name as a call sign, then it was changed to something else after some objections from another air force. The dog was part of 617's history and that's how it should be. Times have changed we move on but we shouldn't have to rewrite history!!

Total agree, history is history.

I too was at Marham in the early 617 toernado days, As I recall the boss lead a 4 ship airfield attack on Lakenheath as N****r Formation, The Lakenheath SATCO then objected to the Name and it then became Black Dog.

DAVEM

I can’t ever recall hearing 617 using “N****r”, whilst they were stationed at Lossie.

A disgrace as has been said history is history. Are we in future going to have to say the underneath paint on a WW2 bomber is dark coloured rather than black. Someone will be suggesting soon that the word should be removed from all English dictionaries.

plmc135 wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:08 am

A disgrace as has been said history is history. Are we in future going to have to say the underneath paint on a WW2 bomber is dark coloured rather than black. Someone will be suggesting soon that the word should be removed from all English dictionaries.

It happened years ago - can't remember the name o the MP involved, but he tried to have the term 'black ice' banned because use of the word 'black' in connection with something that is be bad and dangerous (the ice) had the effect of giving a negative impression of black people and, by definition, pandered to stereotypes.

On the subject of the use of the word 'nigger', I have a question: why, if the word smacks of racism and is all but outlawed in many sections of today's society, is it allowed to be used by young black men, almost as a badge of honour, to describe themselves; and what would the reaction be if attempts were made to make it socially unacceptable in the BAME community? Seems to me that, with the increasing polarization between black and white, who can and cannot use the term is a somewhat, er, grey area.

Thunder wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:21 pm

I can’t ever recall hearing 617 using “N****r”, whilst they were stationed at Lossie.

I'm advised by someone with a better memory than me that the squadron used Blackdog during their last three or four years at Lossie, but N****r in the years before that. I certainly remember hearing N****r more often than not.

Macclad51, thanks for update on 617's current ops callsign.

My recollection of boozy evening chats with Chinese customers in Singapore on the subject of race included me being referred to as ghost eyes Gweilo which meant foreigner but in a derogatory sense.

Arabian slave traders used a very rude word for people taken from the interior to the east coast of Africa by the coastal tribes.

Most of the African slaves traded by Europeans were bought from people native to the western area of the continent.

I held on to a toy given to me in early childhood and cherished by me until about ten year ago. He was know as Golly and I’m not embarrassed to say that I much regret putting him in the rubbish bin.

Make friends. Ignore the weirdos if you can. The whole subject is totally bonkers

so swiftly moving on what colour do we describe coal or do we ban all things black and white IE I have a black tv and pc monitor / key board this is getting to be totally darn stupid ffs