Brexit - EU Poll

[deerhunter]

Does that include the gnomes

[bobthehandyman]

We must be mad to consider leaving, look at the main countries in the EU, low unemployment, debt free, no riots, sarcasm btw.
I'm out!

[beefsteak]

Beefstake ..... are we talking about the same car industry here...? With the absolute joke of a line up are you even surprised it died a death? EU or no EU, ain't nobody going to buy a flipping Metro!!

I'm staying out of the In / Out conversation, but your comments on home soil industries are cringe worthy.

I own a car, a bicycle, my home probably has some steel in it & my parents home still runs on coal before you question my authenticity to question your comments.

So you're staying out of the argument by clearly posting none rhetorical points, go on then, I'll play along.

Rolls Royce, Jaguar, Bentley to name but a few that have gone.

As for the rest of your inane comment, I haven't got a clue where you are going with it! ie, you own a bicycle, just what has that got to do with my comment re 10,000 people losing their jobs after EU trade deals made it easier for crap Chinese imports to flood the market pricing out our products. How many of you have got a Chinese bike over 20 years old? none of you, I still have my old Raleigh Wayfarer built around 1974 (Admittedly it doesn't get ridden any more, but the only rust on it is where I haven't cleaned the chrome for a few years !

[Rugbyref]

Both my grandfathers fought in WW1 to stop the Germans ruling the UK. One died, the other lost an arm. I am adamant we need to vote leave to regain our sovereignty, so that my grandchildren are not ruled by the Germans.

[TankBuster]

Both my grandfathers fought in WW1 to stop the Germans ruling the UK. One died, the other lost an arm. I am adamant we need to vote leave to regain our sovereignty, so that my grandchildren are not ruled by the Germans.

Agreed! Cameron wants to let Brussels invade through the back door. God help us if we stay in the EU, I believe that over time Brussels will eventually dictate to us everything that we can and cant do! Cameron is a fool!!!

TankBuster

[Blackcat1]

Don't they already ? ;-)

[TankBuster]

Don't they already ? ;-)

Yes they do, but I fear that they will really turn us over good & proper if we stay in! Our banks will probably all end up in Germany, our stock market would probably fizzle out & our government wouldn't have any purpose at all as we'd be 100% controlled by Brussels!

If we stay in then we mightaswell throw a couple of mooring cables across the channel and winch the UK towards mainland Europe for permanent attachment .

TankBuster

[beefsteak]

I've been chatting to a friend on line who lives in Switzerland, the Swiss can't believe we're considering leaving the EU, they think we're mad. The Swiss have the same constraints as EU countries, and worse trading deals. They have to go along with just about all EU dreectives in order to get the trade deals, but have no say in their formulation. Trading with the EU is a nightmare, remember that Switzerland's economy, much like Britain's, is not manufacturing but services, particularly financial services. Does anyone know anyone in Norway with experience of trading with EU?

13051647_10153730259952779_7108358253695028787_n by Ian Sheppard, on Flickr

[C24]

This quote made me smile.

To the Times,
" Thank you for alerting us to the assertion by the chief executive of JPMorgan Chase that Brexit could mean 4,000 fewer bankers.
I was wavering before I read that. "
Signed Robin Knight Bruce, London.

Soon be over.

[Sparts99]

I've been chatting to a friend on line who lives in Switzerland, the Swiss can't believe we're considering leaving the EU, they think we're mad. The Swiss have the same constraints as EU countries, and worse trading deals. They have to go along with just about all EU dreectives in order to get the trade deals, but have no say in their formulation. Trading with the EU is a nightmare, remember that Switzerland's economy, much like Britain's, is not manufacturing but services, particularly financial services. Does anyone know anyone in Norway with experience of trading with EU?

13051647_10153730259952779_7108358253695028787_n by Ian Sheppard, on Flickr

Where's the source of your info? It looks like you've made this slide yourself (nice photostream BTW, some cracking shots there). Ones you've missed and are never mentioned becasue it doesn't fit with the Swiss image they want to project, a huge heroin and youth homeless problem - I've seen this myself firsthand in Montreux and Geneva, virtually zero property ownership and building controls that mean property ownership is kept to a small elite minority, and hugely expensive privatised healthcare.

BMRider, of course I haven't spoken to them all, I was passing on the comments made by a friend, and what is the relevance of the respective populations ? I made my decision to stay based on information I could find that I could verify, and my insticnt for collaboration, there's far too much 'fact' on either side of the debate that's innacuarate, and/or can't be checked. But on balance, I think staying and having a say in bringing about change to make the EU better will be far more beneficial.

[Sparts99]

From Rugby Ref's post earlier

"10. The EU has interfered too much in people’s lives

Source: Jean-Claude Juncker told a meeting of the Council of Europe in Strasbourg that people were “stepping away” from the EU, which he said had “lost a part of its attractiveness”.
Juncker said one of the reasons EU citizens were losing faith in the union was because “we are interfering in too many areas of their private lives, and in too many areas where member states are better placed to act”

Does this not indicate that it's recognised at the highest level within the EU that it has to change to continue? We can have an influence on that, or we can stand on the sidelines while it happens, and have no say in it even though it will undoubtedly affect us. The Eu needs reform, I think most people recognise that, but to step away when momentum is building for that change across the EU seems to me to be the wrong thing to do.

[C24]

Try this scenario.

90% of those qualifying actually vote. The result is 49.95% opting to leave. This would signal that a large number (I stress number, not percentage) in the UK are unhappy with the situation but the Country is still in the club and can gather the others who also wish for major changes.

I am probably ....ing into the wind; who knows?

[Malcolm]

90% of those qualifying actually vote. The result is 49.95% opting to leave. This would signal that a large number (I stress number, not percentage) in the UK are unhappy with the situation but the Country is still in the club and can gather the others who also wish for major changes.

Well - if that happens do you support democracy or not? Are you prepared to accept the decision of the (50.05%) majority who vote to stay, or not? The 10% of people that were registered to vote but didn't could have swayed the decision one war or t'other but presumably weren't that bothered either way.

And from memory, no govt since the war has had more than 50% of the popular vote at a general election. Democracy is an illusion - the Scots overwhelmingly elected in the SNP at the last GE, but voted 55/45% against independence. Their 50 Westminster MP's have virtually no say in government policy.

[BMrider]

In Aylesbury

[Rugbyref]

Still a few Remanians to be converted yet then!

[Sparts99]

You'll never convince me to vote leave, mainly because the figurehead of the campaign Boris Johnson was saying less than two years ago that the EU isn't responsible for the UK's problems, we should be supporting it, and was saying that Turkey should be allowed to join the EU. He doesn't care about the UK, just getting himself into No.10. When it all goes manboobs up he can shrug his shoulders, hands palm up and say he was only doing what the UK voted for, he can't lose.

[Tally-ho]

The EU Referendum is not about individuals or individual politicians. It is not about current leaders, bureaucrats or personalities. It is about the future of a country known as Great Britain or Britain or the United Kingdom - whichever you prefer. It is about our country's future as an independent and thus far sovereign state or about being sucked into a conglomeration of 27+ other countries in what would resemble the United States of Europe.

The choice is country and sovereignty OR being told what to do by others from another place which you did not elect to rule over you.

Edit: Grammar correction

[warthog56]

Been enjoying the exchange of views on here and must say that as an ex local government finance officer who lost his job because of "austerity" cuts I find the economic arguments to remain somewhat bizarre! Osborne insists that there needs to be continued cuts to public sector services including the police, prison officers and border control staff all of whom are necessary to protect us from the miscreant migrants coming into the country. The aim of the Government is to reduce public spending by £25 billion over the five year term of this Parliament. That amount could almost be saved in one year without affecting the "man in the street" by stopping the net contribution of £7.5 billion to the EU and the £12.5 billion in overseas aid to other countries. Can anyone explain to me how the chancellor can justify giving money away whilst still borrowing billions of pounds a year to maintain Government spending. Those debts are incurring more charges so we will never reduce the financial deficit! I don't run my finances that way! And I hope he's not turned to any of the "pay day lenders" because the IMF see the country as a bad risk!

On immigration, I have to say that there is a strong difference of opinion on whether allowing 300,000 extra folk each year into the country is a good thing. To me it's not. It is the equivalent of creating another city the size of my own one (Nottingham) which needs 2 large hospitals and 100+ schools for basic needs. Very few new house are being built and to support the new arrivals most of the homes would need to be social housing rather than homes to buy. The homes for rent are either in the old areas of cities or former council homes that were sold and so exist in council/housing association estates. This is where tensions are arising as there is little integration and British folk are annoyed because of gang fights between east European groups. Getting a doctors appointment has also become more difficult as non English speaking patients are allocated double appointments because an interpreter is required. Primary schools in these areas also struggle with the need for interpreters - school budgets were protected from cuts but additional funds are not necessarily forthcoming. Lest anyone thinks I have made up these facts I speak from experiencing/witnessing these problems.

I don't believe any politician - they are only in politics for their own gain. I research anything that requires a decision before making a choice hence my "out" vote - done by post almost two weeks ago!

[beefsteak]

You'll never convince me to vote leave, mainly because the figurehead of the campaign Boris Johnson was saying less than two years ago that the EU isn't responsible for the UK's problems, we should be supporting it, and was saying that Turkey should be allowed to join the EU. He doesn't care about the UK, just getting himself into No.10. When it all goes manboobs up he can shrug his shoulders, hands palm up and say he was only doing what the UK voted for, he can't lose.

Whilst I agree with most of what you say, Boris isn't the 'figurehead' of the leave campaign, it's surely Nigel Farage.

[beefsteak]

And as an 'add on' to my comment from a few days back:-

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK (Which now only employs only 150 compared with the 10,000 in 1973, there were still 8,500 there when I was working there till redundancy in 1980!) but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK ?

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.

I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea.

1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.

Not all my own work I'll admit, but most of it has been gleaned from a simple search the internet.