General Election Thursday 4th July 2024

[Sparts99]

......... as I don't want this country run by socialists like your self who by the way said they wanted England to lose in the Euros the other day -

Who actually said that? I'm genuinely curious. I really don't understnad this vitriol agianst anything socialist. Socialist doesn't equal Russian, USSR, dictatorship or whatever. NHS is the biggest socialist project this country has ever done, was it wrong to do so? The second biggest socialist project was the furlough scheme introduced ironically by Sunak.

As for Truss. Thanks to her disastrous economic plan to cut taxes for the wealthiest my (Thatcher inspired) private pensions have taken a two year hit, that's two years of contributions vanished in 44 days. Then she throws Kwarteng under the bus like she had nothing to do with it?

[steamy]

Don't think I've mentioned it, but yes, I would love to see England lose in the Euro's (peno's in the final again would be brilliant )

But, not sure how that equates into a UK wide referendum thread? Some sort of non-England party bias or something they were inferring ? (Is that you Tommy Robinson?)

[James Cutting]

It's because I said in the Euros thread I hoped they lose so Southgate would be sacked quicker

[iainpeden]

My mortgage rate back in the day reached 15%

Everyone seems to want someone else to pick up the bill for them these days

I remember those heady days of Thatcherism when unemployment soared along with inflation and rampant violence between the police and the miners - but at least we had a lot of squadrons with decent colour schemes supporting the airshows.

Your rather macho boast of surviving the 15% mortgage rate rather misses the point. In those days my wife's and my joint income was about £15K gross - the mortgage was about £30k and the repayment close to £300 a month. Nowadays a couple on the same jobs at the same level of advancement would be on about £70K but the mortgage would nearer £280K - not double the salary but four times over. There is the difference.

As for your rather smug, selfish even. comment about having a good job and pension because of Thatcher - well I'm in the same circumstance, but in education it was my hard work and support of my family that did that and Thatcher had diddly squat to do with it.

Your voting with your ideology - so essentially you don't actually examine the policies, look at the success (or otherwise) of the party in power and make your mind up from that point - just vote for the latest yes person wearing the colour rosette you prefer. Your vote for Truss - well it's the old N4N isn't it and I do wonder if you might just be in a very small minority.

[cat1]

Exit poll showing a major tori loss and significant gains for labour...
Not hard numbers but a sign of what's to come.

Solid results first expected around the next hour

[steamy]

My mortgage rate back in the day reached 15%

Everyone seems to want someone else to pick up the bill for them these days

Your rather macho boast of surviving the 15% mortgage rate rather misses the point. In those days my wife's and my joint income was about £15K gross - the mortgage was about £30k and the repayment close to £300 a month. Nowadays a couple on the same jobs at the same level of advancement would be on about £70K but the mortgage would nearer £280K - not double the salary but four times over. There is the difference.

I love that insufferable flex ... you have to remember, they had parents who went through the war etc... they needed something to show their "resolve"...

That argument always falls flat on it's arse when you consider modern living structures..

-no more single income families
-mortgages circa £1000 + to begin with
-non single income families require childcare, childcare costs of £1000 + per month
-higher bills that don't adhere to standard inflation

I heard an argument from a boomer of "just don't have kids if you can't afford them".....good luck holding onto that triple lock without new taxpayers into the system

[steamy]

Exit poll showing a major tori loss and significant gains for labour...
Not hard numbers but a sign of what's to come.

Solid results first expected around the next hour

Labour just nipped it

The main positive... Reform UK got F*** all seats

[James Cutting]

They have 4, unfortunately

[slogen51]

I don't what iain ped is going on about house prices for - that has nothing to do with party politics - house prices rocketed in the 2000s under labour. You get some real vitriol on here especially from one or two on the left who feel they are due some payback.

Yes under Thatcher you had the terrible scenes of police against miners but union leadership were infiltrated by Marxists who were looking to change the political system in this country.

I do remember the 'old' Labour governments pandering to the unions - three and four day weeks - lights going out etc emergency budgets , the IMF

'New' Labour party is center left so the status quo will hopefully continue.

I just hope people who express an alternative opinion don't get ranted at as happens by a small minority on here.

Don't mention Jeremy Corbyn

[iainpeden]

Truss gone. Essentially her tenure was the final straw for the Tories and she didn’t even have the class to congratulate her opponent at the count.

Some interesting results for Labour with Wes Streeting and Jess Phillips having much reduced majorities and Johnathan Ashworth losing his seat, all against independent candidates protesting against the party’s stance on Gaza.

Edit.
Morning Slogen, must have been typing at the same time.
I too remember the excess of the unions in the 70s which is why I voted for Thatcher and Major at the time. House prices have risen for a number of reasons; the sale of council houses ( no problem there if they had been replaced under both parties) being one but the current issue is primarily down to Truss.

Interesting about Corbyn but I’m not surprised as I think the Labour vote could be less than solid - 2029 will tell.

[slogen51]

I am still trying to understand your house price argument - i know it's not strictly relevant but you mentioned it whilst saying I was wrong to vote on an ideological basis - I can accept that - my brother in-law says he votes on the issue that directly affects him - so this time he is concerned about green belt planning permission behind his house etc

Anyway house prices boomed under Blair from 1998 - average house price in 1998 was 52K - in 2008 it had escalated to over 280K. I don't know why that should happen but I doubt it was due to labour party policy although labour policy in loosening control the Bank of England had may have indirectly made it easier for people to borrow large sums of money - interest only loans etc

As we probably all agree rising house prices are very damaging to the fabric of society and I strongly believe it started to get out of control with Blairs new Britain as did immigration, another major pressure on house prices and society.

[slogen51]

Anyway Labour have achieved a massive majority which is quite an achievement considering what happened in 2019

I am hopeful - the British people have spoken and let's hope Labour can find some solutions to some very difficult issues

My word what happened to the SNP - people really do vote on personalities and bad behaviour by individuals rather than the big picture or ideology of whatever they believe in

The whole thing is fascinating - Boris attends a party during COVID - what an idiot - and we have a change of government

What's her name buys a camper van and the SNP are booted out!

[steamy]

I am still trying to understand your house price argument

It's OK, anyone who owns their house or is due to finish their mortgage soon will never be able to relate to the issues of buying a house today.

But, by all means, do remind us how tough the 80's was

[iainpeden]

Slogen, I hadn’t intended to link your voting rationale to the house price argument.

My house price point was to highlight the significantly higher ratio of house price to salaries now than when you and I were buying our first property. We both went through that 15% interest rate period, and many ended up in negative equity because of it, but ultimately in percentage terms we were using a lower proportion of salary to pay the mortgage.

The other issue is of course rental rises; I worry about the people who will never have the great feeling of finishing the mortgage but will need to be paying rent until it’s time to pay for the funeral.

Anyway, off grid for a few days now to let the dust settle.

[Thunder]

My word what happened to the SNP - people really do vote on personalities and bad behaviour by individuals rather than the big picture or ideology of whatever they believe in

What's her name buys a camper van and the SNP are booted out!

No, people have hopefully woke to the fact that the SNP have delivered diddly squat for Scotland but somehow ruined the country in the process. Swinney said a majority SNP vote would be an Independence mandate, let’s see what ***** he comes out with now.

[cat1]

I remember Keir's first pmqs, remember thinking he wouldn't do too bad a job, but time will tell...

Torys were accepting their loss even before the exit poll last night on social media!

[Captain Haddock]

Watching Steve Baker (ex Northern Ireland Minster) this morning on ITV, not taking his defeat very well, has made my day. Just great!

[Andy_99]

So we have a new Govt. One of the things they mentioned was first on the agenda was a Defence Spending Review.

Is it time for a thread to speculate on it's outcome ? I don't think it'll be great.

[James Cutting]

No, because speculation gets you nowhere. Better to wait until it's actually in black and white or they have at least outlined their plans.

[slogen51]

Slogen, I hadn’t intended to link your voting rationale to the house price argument.

My house price point was to highlight the significantly higher ratio of house price to salaries now than when you and I were buying our first property. We both went through that 15% interest rate period, and many ended up in negative equity because of it, but ultimately in percentage terms we were using a lower proportion of salary to pay the mortgage.

The other issue is of course rental rises; I worry about the people who will never have the great feeling of finishing the mortgage but will need to be paying rent until it’s time to pay for the funeral.

Anyway, off grid for a few days now to let the dust settle.

Rents are a major worry - Britain is broken in many important ways

I will come off this topic as well and get back to military aviation and leave steamy to steam on - glad he pointed out buying house was difficult now - what a sausage I must be - I hadn't realized because in the 70s and 80s you they just gave you one! All you had to do was save up the 20% deposit and get a regular salary - Easy! Then Blair came along and said don't bother saving for a deposit have a 100% mortgage instead. Bang! House prices explode upwards.

Anyway I shall get back to shooting deer on my Norfolk estate