RAF changed Dog grave wording

[Thunder]

Being born in 1972, I’m too young to remember Love Thy Neighbour being on the tele, so I’ve just watched a clip on You Tube. On how Earth was that allowed on tele even in he 70’s, I’m embarrassed and ashamed that that was found to be ok for prime time tele.

[Mike]

Being born in 1972, I’m too young to remember Love Thy Neighbour being on the tele, so I’ve just watched a clip on You Tube. On how Earth was that allowed on tele even in he 70’s, I’m embarrassed and ashamed that that was found to be ok for prime time tele.

Scott, when Love Thy Neighbour was being shown on TV it was a huge success with both black and white people. The black neighbour (Bill Reynolds) gave as much as he got, the series wasn't about white supremacy - it was about blacks and white making fun of each other.

And then there was 'Till Death Us Do Part' with Warren Mitchell (Alf Garnett), oh dear, oh dear!!!

[slogen51]

Apparently love thy neighbour is very popular in Australia!

I do remember watching the program and you could argue that because it contained mutual or reciprocal racism then it is ok but really the premise is in the title - you have to love your neighbor - even if they are black which takes on a whole new insidious meaning and looking back with 20/20 hindsight it is 100% racist.

On a different theme I see the RFU are still reviewing the use of Swing Low Sweet Chariot due to BLM complaints - I can't agree with that - better to encourage people to look into the origins of the song and the history of the composer.

[Thunder]

, the series wasn't about white supremacy - it was about blacks and white making fun of each other.

Have to disagree based on the clip that I watched, it was relentless racial jibes and remarks towards Blacks. The use of the words “Nig Nogs” and “Sambo”, were said more than 20 times in the space of 9mins and in between that continuous other derogatory remarks ALL directed one way.

Not surprised that it’s popular in Australia, one of the most racially prejudiced countries in the World.

[XWP29]

Labrador retrievers, the breed of dog in this story, are the most wonderful human friendly companion’s. I’ve been fortunate enough to be brought up with them and then shared our family life with them.
They don’t care who you are or where you come from or what we decide to name them.
They are selfless and great companions in that they are much better than us in accepting others, they accept everyone as a new friend, unless they sense they really are in fact not.
They do not have a take on politics or racism and should be spared any connection to those subjects.

[gamecock]

I remember laughing at Love Thy Neighbour when I was 6 or 7, but lets be honest it was racist, like Mind Your Language. Till Death Us Do Part was a satire on racism and was brilliantly written, but Johnny Speight was troubled by the response from a lot of white fans, who just agreed with everything Alf Garnett said at face value. They couldn't see they were the butt of the joke.

[plmc135]

So what about Bill Reynolds, played by Rudolph Walker in Love thy Neighbour, calling his next door neighbour a honky is that all right? I am no racist but the comments always seem to be going in one direction. Racism is apparent in all races and creeds and does not necessarily revolve around colour.

No white person has ever been offended by being called honky.
You're pretty much calling reverse racism? It only goes one way because it is one way.

So it isn't about colour? so it's about peoples dna heritage and beliefs then? do you even realise what you're saying.

''I am no racist'' and the wording such as this means quite frankly you are. Usually met with but my friend is black.

You do not appear to know what the definition of racism is, it is as follows:-

"prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized"

It is not solely about one's skin colour, what does BAME stand for, Black, Asian, Minority and Ethnic groups. There are many examples of racism around the world that have nothing to do with skin colour, the caste system in India, the Rohingya in Myanmar, the Uighurs in China and the Aboriginal descendants in Australia to name but a few. Our so called partners across the Atlantic still have issues following their treatment of the native Americans.

This discussion has all arisen over the name of a dog in WW2 let us not forget who one of the world's worst racists ever and that was Adolf Hitler, his attack was solely against a religious group, so are we expected to change his name. Then there is the mass genocide in Rwanda, that was black/black. We cannot change history.

I don't know if any of you read the recent article on BBC News about Dilibe Onyeama, the first black student to complete his studies at Eton College. My school played Eton at football and Dilibe was my opponent on I believe one and probably two occasions; the sledging he received from his own team mates was unbelievable. However like me now in the twilight of life, he wrote a book about his experiences at Eton and I am going to print the name of it even though it may offend some "Nigger at Eton"; are you going to ask him to change the title of his book.

Finally what evidence to you have that no white person has ever been offended by being called honky, pure speculation.

[C24]

To quote from an above post

This discussion has all arisen over the name of a dog in WW2 let us not forget who one of the world's worst racists ever and that was Adolf Hitler, his attack was solely against a religious group, so are we expected to change his name. We cannot change history.

For your info:

Adolf Hitler was almost Adolf Schicklgruber. Or Adolf Hiedler. His father, Alois, was born out of wedlock to Maria Anna Schicklgruber and given her surname. However, when he was about 40 years old, Alois decided to adopt the last name of his stepfather, Johann Georg Hiedler, who some speculated was actually his biological father. On the legal documents, Hitler was given as the new last name, though the reason for the spelling change is unknown. Alois Hitler was married twice and had several children before taking Klara Pölzl as his third wife. The couple had six children, though only Adolf and a sister reached adulthood. Adolf had a difficult relationship with his father, who died in 1903, but he adored his mother and was reportedly grief-stricken by her death from breast cancer in 1907.

[Tooks]

I don't know if any of you read the recent article on BBC News about Dilibe Onyeama, the first black student to complete his studies at Eton College. My school played Eton at football and Dilibe was my opponent on I believe one and probably two occasions; the sledging he received from his own team mates was unbelievable. However like me now in the twilight of life, he wrote a book about his experiences at Eton and I am going to print the name of it even though it may offend some "Nigger at Eton"; are you going to ask him to change the title of his book.

Have you read the book? If you haven’t, you should, it’s very enlightening.

No, Dillibe Onyeama doesn’t need to change the title of his book, it’s about his struggle to get through Eton and the appalling racist abuse he suffered at the hands of his fellow pupils and teachers/staff who were white.

It’s still an offensive word, but in the context and coming from a black person it’s very different to the Gibson dog story.

Those who say we can’t re-write history presumably will be against the apology Dillibe has received from Eton, and against the offer for him to return to the school in person to receive another one. Let’s not forget that he was banned from returning to the school in 1972 after writing the book. A book he wrote and titled to draw attention to what he had suffered.

Ultimately, we’ve got to stop trying to justify things on the back of whataboutism, it can be complicated and nuanced, but really all racism and discrimination is bad.

We all know that, don’t we, we’re all mostly decent people trying to live the best lives we can. But it’s right that the name of Guy Gibson’s dog, like the dog itself, has been laid to rest.

As a Nation I accept we did a lot of things differently back then, many of which wouldn’t be acceptable today. There is no need for us to keep perpetuating offense though, as we demand our ‘right’ to look back in any way we see fit.

[iainpeden]

No white person has ever been offended by being called honky.
You're pretty much calling reverse racism? It only goes one way because it is one way.

So it isn't about colour? so it's about peoples dna heritage and beliefs then? do you even realise what you're saying.

''I am no racist'' and the wording such as this means quite frankly you are. Usually met with but my friend is black.
[/quote]

Fester I totally agree with your view that racism is wrong but feel you are mistaken in your view that it's only white on black.
Personally, as a white person, I have been racially abused. In Jamaica, 27 years ago, we had a fortnight of being threatened, swore at and finally mugged at knifepoint. To this day if I hear "Jamaica" I become wary. If that makes me racist then so be it.

However, I'll share this with you:

I was born in south London (1957) and my infant school was totally multi racial with many first generation West Indian immigrants so I had that wonderful and important learning experience that we were all people who just happened to have different coloured skin; we all played football together, our knees all bled the same when we fell over and so on.
My dad taught in Canning Town and had a class of 30 children - Pakistani and Indian at the time of the war between those countries, Turkish and Greek Cypriots (not a happy mix) and West Indians from a variety of islands. He came home one night and told us about a discussion he had with one of the newly arrived West Indian mums; he'd asked her how she was settling into Britain and commented that it must help having other people from the Caribbean in their community. Her reply was disparaging, the immigrants from her island were far better than peoples from other islands who were far inferior to her - the phrase gobsmacked wasn't invented then - but he was.

My point is that we have to work to get all disparate groups to work together and respect each other and by simplistically basing it on skin colour won't get anywhere fast.

[plmc135]

Having witnessed the abuse at first hand I don't think I would learn much more; how he maintained his poise when on the football pitch I never knew it was almost as if there were three teams ours, theirs and Dilibe.

I fully support the steps that Eton have taken but giving an apology does not change history it merely acknowledges that what was done was wrong it does not wipe out the abuse. You need to know what happened in the past to justify the apology.

[Tooks]

Having witnessed the abuse at first hand I don't think I would learn much more; how he maintained his poise when on the football pitch I never knew it was almost as if there were three teams ours, theirs and Dilibe.

I fully support the steps that Eton have taken but giving an apology does not change history it merely acknowledges that what was done was wrong it does not wipe out the abuse. You need to know what happened in the past to justify the apology.

It’s genuinely fascinating, if not a little depressing, that you saw first hand a sliver of what Dillibe was experiencing as he went through school.

Sadly, what he experienced was typical of the time, I witnessed similar scenes at my schools in the 70s and early 80s.

You’re right about apologies not changing what happened, but acknowledging wrongs is the start of creating something better. In a way, the RAF are doing the same by removing an offensive word from a memorial, it’s an acknowledgement that whatever the thoughts and norms of the time, it has no place in the present or future.

[fester]

So what about Bill Reynolds, played by Rudolph Walker in Love thy Neighbour, calling his next door neighbour a honky is that all right? I am no racist but the comments always seem to be going in one direction. Racism is apparent in all races and creeds and does not necessarily revolve around colour.

No white person has ever been offended by being called honky.
You're pretty much calling reverse racism? It only goes one way because it is one way.

So it isn't about colour? so it's about peoples dna heritage and beliefs then? do you even realise what you're saying.

''I am no racist'' and the wording such as this means quite frankly you are. Usually met with but my friend is black.

You do not appear to know what the definition of racism is, it is as follows:-

"prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized"

It is not solely about one's skin colour, what does BAME stand for, Black, Asian, Minority and Ethnic groups. There are many examples of racism around the world that have nothing to do with skin colour, the caste system in India, the Rohingya in Myanmar, the Uighurs in China and the Aboriginal descendants in Australia to name but a few. Our so called partners across the Atlantic still have issues following their treatment of the native Americans.

This discussion has all arisen over the name of a dog in WW2 let us not forget who one of the world's worst racists ever and that was Adolf Hitler, his attack was solely against a religious group, so are we expected to change his name. Then there is the mass genocide in Rwanda, that was black/black. We cannot change history.

I don't know if any of you read the recent article on BBC News about Dilibe Onyeama, the first black student to complete his studies at Eton College. My school played Eton at football and Dilibe was my opponent on I believe one and probably two occasions; the sledging he received from his own team mates was unbelievable. However like me now in the twilight of life, he wrote a book about his experiences at Eton and I am going to print the name of it even though it may offend some "Nigger at Eton"; are you going to ask him to change the title of his book.

Finally what evidence to you have that no white person has ever been offended by being called honky, pure speculation.

A lot of google searching to back track on appearing racist. Nice one.

Most of it has nothing to do with the topic at hand also, hardly any racial slurs in all that baloney.

True but its about as much speculation a white person also needs to rabbit on about how this doesn't change anything and oooooh my pet is this colour, utter nonsense.

[raptor9]

I echo IP's comments. I've been called 'Honky' whilst in the Bronx in New York, and '2 Bob' in West Africa. I had a black son-in-law for a number of years, before he foxtrot oscared with all my daughter's money, and never thereafter contributed towards his young family. I feel VERY vindictive towards this person, but it has nothing to do with his colour. It is my experience that all ethnic communities are racist towards each other, and I don't think this will change anytime soon. All lives matter, pink, green, black, yellow, whatever, and it annoys me somewhat that this world seems to be getting worse by the day. Being an oldie, I certainly saw the best of it, thank goodness.

[Blackcat1]

Exactly all lives MATTER! Except Murderers , rapists , paedos, animal abusers !

[Tooks]

I never knew that so many old white guys were being racially abused, and that means that it’s ok to try and detract from the BLM campaign. Why does it upset so many? It’s about trying to achieve parity, not elevating themselves above everybody else.

Maybe somewhere in an African Air Force compound, there is the grave of a dog that used to be owned by a middle ranking officer, maybe you should start a campaign to have the name ‘Honky’ (for it was surely a West Highland Terrier) removed from the memorial stone? Except there probably isn’t is there, so it’s a non argument.

Whatever the insults that have been sent your way from non-white people over the years, I can guarantee it is absolutely nothing compared to the abuse and discrimination that black people suffer every day in this country.

You’d have to be privileged and white, as well as pretty obstinate, to not understand that.

[Blackcat1]

[Philly1971]

I must confess i wouldn’t mind being called a Honky, probably the coolest thing anyone would ever have called me. The only better thing I would love to be called by a black person is a “cat” , as in; man that cat could dig a tune out of anything with a string on it. Sadly I neither know any old time black blues musicians, or can play any instrument, so the chances of being referred to as a cat is highly unlikely.