Brexit - EU Poll

[deerhunter]

John you have hit the nail on the head

[EGDR]

Democracy? Yes. A perfect example of democracy? No.

Democracy does not mean the losing side is written off. In a parliament you are still represented, here it's all but a binary decision. That kind of vote needs a clear mandate either way to solve the issue.


And as a direct consequence of this democratic vote, we will have a new Prime Minister, who will probably be elected by 150,000 people.

[jeallen01]

PP

I brought that up because the forthcoming P8 & F35 are commonly-discussed subjects on this and other military aviation forums, and reduction in those already-minimal projected capabilities will leave us even more dependent on similar forces from other nations (both European and N.American) which are, themselves, are fairly cash-strapped at the moment and in the foreseeable future - and, given the widespread "bad atmosphere" engendered by Brexit - they may be even less inclined to provide it.

[C24]

[quote="KyleG"]Democracy? Yes. A perfect example of democracy? No.

Democracy does not mean the losing side is written off. In a parliament you are still represented, here it's all but a binary decision. That kind of vote needs a clear mandate either way to solve the issue.

Back to your drawing board.
Democracy. control of an organization or group by the majority of its members.

The UK now has to leave the EU. The other members no longer wish us to be a part of the Union if my understanding of the comments made over the last 30 hours by EU officials are correctly interpreted.
If the voters of Scotland wish to leave the UK, they should do that. The balance is a similar small gap in their referendum to ours although in the other way. If they want another referendum, so be it. That is democratic.

Try a different mind set. If the ship is sinking, stop whinging how deep the water is & think of ways to keep the vessel afloat.

[EGDR]

The other members want us to stay. But we voted to leave, so they want that process over as quickly as possible.

[deerhunter]

Got it in one Charlie.

Probably elected by 150,000, unfortunately that's the case, the new leader off the cons will be elected by the members and thereby become the prime minister as he/she is the leader of the party in power elected after a democratic vote

They were elected and promised a referendum, we got one, we've voted (well not all of us), let's move on.

[Blackcat1]

Just get over it people it's been decided just chill! and go to the pub! It's Saturday!!.

[andrewn]

I signed the petition. I'm not that enthused about another referendum but there seriously needs to be a lot of debate over how we can go forward in a way that can suit everyone as much as possible.

With the result so narrow, neither side can effectively claim a mandate for their choice, as it would always be going against half of the nation. Complicating this further, we are now facing the potential end of the United Kingdom.

If any time there was an argument to get me to support compulsory voting it was yesterday. 62% of those eligible did not vote to leave the EU. Whether those non-voters would be a majority for out or in, we may never know, but we should have known.

Kyle, as you half admit, a second referenda is madness, and smacks of bitterness and poor loser mentality; more importantly it would do nothing to heal divisions but likely quite the opposite. What i believe is beginning to dawn on all sides is that this is no computer game, there is no reset or regenerate option; the people have spoken and the decision is final, whether we like it or not!

What we must do now is make the best of the hand we have been dealt and move forward as one.

My personal fear is that dreadful, opportunistic, power hungry Sturgeon will try and derail everything

[John W]

I agree with every word

John

[Blackcat1]

Well fed up of politics so off to the pub, there's football on ! Cmon chaps! Stiff upper lip and all that!! It's Britain! Keep the faith!. Good luck all.

[deerhunter]

Andrew, think you are right about Sturgeon

Blackcat1 good idea, mines a bitter

[EGDR]

I signed the petition. I'm not that enthused about another referendum but there seriously needs to be a lot of debate over how we can go forward in a way that can suit everyone as much as possible.

With the result so narrow, neither side can effectively claim a mandate for their choice, as it would always be going against half of the nation. Complicating this further, we are now facing the potential end of the United Kingdom.

If any time there was an argument to get me to support compulsory voting it was yesterday. 62% of those eligible did not vote to leave the EU. Whether those non-voters would be a majority for out or in, we may never know, but we should have known.

Kyle, as you half admit, a second referenda is madness, and smacks of bitterness and poor loser mentality; more importantly it would do nothing to heal divisions but likely quite the opposite. What i believe is beginning to dawn on all sides is that this is no computer game, there is no reset or regenerate option; the people have spoken and the decision is final, whether we like it or not!

What we must do now is make the best of the hand we have been dealt and move forward as one.

My personal fear is that dreadful, opportunistic, power hungry Sturgeon will try and derail everything

I don't disagree with you. Despite having signed the petition, I don't think another referendum is likely at all. But I do think that the petition will help to demonstrate to those who will make the negotiations in the near future that a lot of people, mainly those who voted remain, do have concerns, and that these concerns need to be addressed and their views listened to.

The best way forward, IMO, and it's looking like this is how they're planning to do it, is to have a negotiation that involves figures from all parties as well as business and industry.

[The Phantom]

And as a direct consequence of this democratic vote, we will have a new Prime Minister, who will probably be elected by 150,000 people.

That's 150,000 more than ever voted for Gordon Brown when he became Prime minister.

I get the feeling you wouldn't be so concerned about democracy, etc, if the 4% had been in favour of the 'Remain'.

[EGDR]

No, regardless of which way the vote went, we would remain a very divided society. I would still wish for the leave voters to have their say on the future if we voted to remain.

Gordon Brown was elected unopposed within Labour. Technically the same could happen for the Conservatives.

[Rugbyref]

If this petition went anywhere it would create a very very dangerous precedent for every General Election to be subject to a demand for a re-run.
Demanding a re-run 'because the people voted the wrong way' was exactly the EU behaviour that we detested.

[jeallen01]

If this petition went anywhere it would create a very very dangerous precedent for every General Election to be subject to a demand for a re-run.
Demanding a re-run 'because the people voted the wrong way' was exactly the EU behaviour that we detested.

. You may "detest" the EU, but I think you meant "defected"!

General Elections are (generally!) held every 5yrs, and if you don't like the result of No 1 then you can change the situation in No 2.

OTOH, this is a "once and forever" situation, and there will be NO opportunity to ever change it again, even if the next generations really do want to. That is the VERY significant difference. Therefore we must make every effort to ensure that all the country really wants OUT by a very significant margin, but 52 to 48 of 70% of all eligible voters - not to speak of all the people who are as yet too young to vote but who will have to deal with the consequences for the longterm - is NOT a significant margin

[EGDR]

Agree with the above, well put.

[reheat module]

what a load of chin-dancing has gone on here
Let me try and simplify:-
The country was offered a referendum.
Those who wanted (or could be arsed, to vote) voted.
The result showed that the majority (be it 52/48, 51/49 or even 50/50 with a chair vote), decided for OUT.
That's the bottom line of 'Democracy'
Accept and move on.
Life's too short.
Off to the Pub.

[XWP29]

If this petition went anywhere it would create a very very dangerous precedent for every General Election to be subject to a demand for a re-run.
Demanding a re-run 'because the people voted the wrong way' was exactly the EU behaviour that we detested.

. You may "detest" the EU, but I think you meant "defected"!

General Elections are (generally!) held every 5yrs, and if you don't like the result of No 1 then you can change the situation in No 2.

OTOH, this is a "once and forever" situation, and there will be NO opportunity to ever change it again, even if the next generations really do want to. That is the VERY significant difference. Therefore we must make every effort to ensure that all the country really wants OUT by a very significant margin, but 52 to 48 of 70% of all eligible voters - not to speak of all the people who are as yet too young to vote but who will have to deal with the consequences for the longterm - is NOT a significant margin

Check out Article 49 I think it is. A former member can reapply sometime in the future.

[EGDR]

I doubt we would though. Especially considering we would no longer have our opt out from the Euro, the EMU, or Schengen.