trump

[Tally-ho]

Let's be clear here, Ukraine removed all their nuclear capability in 1994 on the strict understanding that it guaranteed America would protect their sovereignty and defend them. Trump is breaking that promise.

Trump was nowhere near the US government in 1994. You cannot blame Trump for the war in Ukraine, it's like trying to blame Churchill for WW2.

[STN RAMP RAT]

Let's be clear here, Ukraine removed all their nuclear capability in 1994 on the strict understanding that it guaranteed America would protect their sovereignty and defend them. Trump is breaking that promise.

Not quite the full story, the Budapest Memorandum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum said that Russia, The United States, France and the UK and the UK would protect their sovereignty. That Memorandum clearly aged well.

[STN RAMP RAT]

Zelensky has no cards.

That may be true, but he does have all the minerals that Trump wants and if Trump pulls away from Ukraine then Putin will have them and Trump will have lost, Trump does not like to loose, remember that Trump is a transactional businessman. However extraordinary Friday was, and it was, its all about the deal. Trump called Zelensky a dictator at the start of the week, then they were all "buddy buddy" in the middle of the week and it all blew up at the end of the week. everyone could be "friends" by the end of next week.

[Tally-ho]

. . . everyone could be "friends" by the end of next week.

That is the nature of politics!

[Hurn]

On the one hand I feel for the normal Ukraian people who are in the middle of all this, but again I think there does need to be some sort of peace deal.
The war just cannot be allowed to go on and on with more billions being thrown at it, and just like Iraq and Afghanistan there seems to be no clear exit strategy.

The reality is, Ukraine are going to have to sacrifice the land they've already lost to Russia. There's not going to be a full withdrawal by Russia from Ukraine and Zelensky needs to wake up to that fact. I do wonder if he should step down and let someone else take control, as he I don't think he's the guy that should be doing the negotiating now. He seems just determined to be some hero that fought off the Russians, when really it's all over and he's just sacrificing more people to the slaughter. I don't know, I'm just fed up of endless wars.

What i will say, is for all of Trumps' faults, at least he has now made European leaders wake up and realise that they need to start spending money on their own defence, and not just think Uncle Sam will bail them out.
We've had too many defence cutbacks and now we are reaping what we have sown.

[binbrook87]

While I agree with some of the points above, despite all of Trumps mood swings and pure nonsensical rantings at least there's some movement towards some kind path to try and end the war (fingers crossed) and also a kick in the pants for Europe to increase defence spending. But what I don't agree with is 'airing your laundry' in public. The sort of embarrassing scenes we saw on Friday should have been for discussion behind closed doors and not for public consumption. It just reinforces my thoughts that Trump is using all of this for the social media world he loves. It's all for the attention, the adulation, the drama, his audience. He wants to be seen as the guy that brokered the peace deal at any cost so he'll go down in history. I don't actually think he gives a damn about the tens of thousands of casualties. I'm sure that the leaders in ww2 had major disagreements but were professional politicians and ensured it all went on behind the scenes. And as for his lapdog JD he's even more dangerous! A VP should keep on the sidelines and in the shadows. Who the hell does he think he is spouting about free speech to Starmer and then asking for gratitude from Zelensky. Quite appalling! I wonder how much power and influence he actually has?
But after all of this week's events....Putin still needs to come to the table and agree on a deal. Will he do so? Will he accept peacekeepers on Ukrainian soil? Remains to be seen.

[KevinJ]

Let's be clear here, Ukraine removed all their nuclear capability in 1994 on the strict understanding that it guaranteed America would protect their sovereignty and defend them. Trump is breaking that promise.

Trump was nowhere near the US government in 1994. You cannot blame Trump for the war in Ukraine, it's like trying to blame Churchill for WW2.

Of course, but they're reneging on a agreement that should stick through decades of leaders.

[KevinJ]

Let's be clear here, Ukraine removed all their nuclear capability in 1994 on the strict understanding that it guaranteed America would protect their sovereignty and defend them. Trump is breaking that promise.

Not quite the full story, the Budapest Memorandum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum said that Russia, The United States, France and the UK would protect their sovereignty. That Memorandum clearly aged well.

True but I remember the days when we could trust America to honour its words, Russia not so much. Shame they didn't keep their TU-22s then!

[James Cutting]

Let's be clear here, Ukraine removed all their nuclear capability in 1994 on the strict understanding that it guaranteed America would protect their sovereignty and defend them. Trump is breaking that promise.

Trump was nowhere near the US government in 1994. You cannot blame Trump for the war in Ukraine, it's like trying to blame Churchill for WW2.

Which is like trying to blame Zelensky for the Russian invasion and war.

[James Cutting]

While I agree with some of the points above, despite all of Trumps mood swings and pure nonsensical rantings at least there's some movement towards some kind path to try and end the war (fingers crossed) and also a kick in the pants for Europe to increase defence spending. But what I don't agree with is 'airing your laundry' in public. The sort of embarrassing scenes we saw on Friday should have been for discussion behind closed doors and not for public consumption. It just reinforces my thoughts that Trump is using all of this for the social media world he loves. It's all for the attention, the adulation, the drama, his audience. He wants to be seen as the guy that brokered the peace deal at any cost so he'll go down in history. I don't actually think he gives a damn about the tens of thousands of casualties. I'm sure that the leaders in ww2 had major disagreements but were professional politicians and ensured it all went on behind the scenes. And as for his lapdog JD he's even more dangerous! A VP should keep on the sidelines and in the shadows. Who the hell does he think he is spouting about free speech to Starmer and then asking for gratitude from Zelensky. Quite appalling! I wonder how much power and influence he actually has?
But after all of this week's events....Putin still needs to come to the table and agree on a deal. Will he do so? Will he accept peacekeepers on Ukrainian soil? Remains to be seen.

Agreed there. So much for Trump ending the war within 24 hours. He’s struggling there.

Crazy about JD as well - blokes mental. Wasn’t that long ago that he despised Trump, wouldn’t vote for him and couldn’t stand him. Now look at him… Harps on about free speech yet was shutting anyone else other than Trump down! It’s just so embarrassing from what should be a “great nation” turning in to a huge laughing stock.

[KevinJ]

It is embarrassing, they all lack basic morals. I do feel sorry for their people, especially the millions who knew what was coming and tried to stop him, the Democrats must take some of the blame, and where are they now that Trump's calling them stupid in the Oval Office? A serious dereliction of duty, but then again the Right have most of the msm in their pocket so little criticism is reported. Tragically I don't think we've seen the worst yet, by a long chalk.

[Tally-ho]

No, he didn’t and everyone saw that.

What are you saying?

[cat1]

I think vance was absolutely right.

Zelesky was saying things like, we have been fighting this on our own, which was complete codswallop.

America made it very clear the meeting was for a DEAL. Zelesky came in and immediately asked for more weapons. So Vance was right,.he doesn't want peace. He's hanging on to the idea what Ukraine will get all it's land back, which it won't.

[James Cutting]

No, he didn’t and everyone saw that.

What are you saying?

I’m saying, every opportunity they had to shout over Zelensky and talk to him like a child, they did. They often didn’t let him speak.

Trump’s managed to talk his way out of the deal due to his behaviour and actions; he of course is such a great President resolving the war within 24 hours like he promised.

[Tally-ho]

No, he didn’t and everyone saw that.

James Cutting wrote:
I’m saying, near enough every opportunity they had to shout over Zelensky and talk to him like a child, they did. They often didn’t let him speak.

You have changed your stance from "No, he didn't" to "near enough" as regards Z's speaking. Progress!

We all saw the video, Z spoke whenever he wanted to. Time to move on.

[James Cutting]

Ah my bad typo

[Tally-ho]

Ah my bad typo

Your original post is there for the record, your editing notwithstanding.

[Col Nago]

The outfit Churchill wore the most during WWII was his trademark, self-designed ‘siren-suit’. He wore it in Royal company on many occasions and when meeting fellow Allied leaders. So why should a current wartime leader have to wear a suit? King Charles is a HUGE admirer of Zelensky. He won’t care what he wears. It just annoys flag banging right wingers – which is fine in my book.

[STN RAMP RAT]

I assume you have an American citizenship?

nuff said


Sorry this is off topic

I apologise

Why are you getting personal? I thought you didn't like that? And how many times, it's you're - at least bring decent literature if you're going to be argumentative.

I am traveling for the next few days so will be tired and grumpy, play nicely or I will close the thread. It was going well but it’s rapidly going down hill.

[slogen51]

Location: Denver, CO

i see, so your a flat liar?

Everyone

This is pathetic and so disappointing and totally against the rules

Keep on topic and save the crap for social media