LA Fires

[slogen51]

The media has been full of the dreadful fires that are sweeping out of control in the Los Angeles area. The pictures of the destruction are just unbelievable. I remember seeing or hearing on Tuesday a short report of a fire in the Santa Monica area on Tuesday but it wasn't then a big story.

I was in western USA during last August and then the local media were saying it had been one of the hottest summers for years and although California was certainly cooler than neighbouring Nevada and Arizona it was still super dry - a tinder box.

This report by a BBC reporter Lucy Sheriff who lives in Los Angeles caught my eye :

"It began on the morning of 7 January. Small flames on the Santa Monica mountain-side that I could see from the Palisades Village. I watched it for a short while, the smoke stretching across the clear blue sky. Locals were taking photos of it.

An hour later, the flames had jumped across the ridgelines and descended down the mountain. I watched as the fire began to engulf homes and smoke billowed across the sky.

I was already extremely concerned about the Santa Ana wind warnings we'd received two days prior – up to 80mph (129km/h) wind gusts were forecast. Those, and the lack of rain we'd had made ideal conditions for a fire to spread quickly and intensely."

Interesting that folk on Tuesday were watching the 'small flames ~ for a short while '

There doesn't seem too be a sense of urgency on Tuesday?

Given the "Santa Ana wind warnings we'd received two days prior" I would hope someone notified the authorities immediately

I know it's a much smaller scale but two years ago I think it was, I was driving home from Marham along the A1065 and I saw smoke coming from Thetford forest - it had been a very dry summer. When I arrived home I dialled 999 to report the fire and they said they had already received multiple calls and the fire brigade were alerted and enroute

[C24]

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If this statement is accurate “ There is unequivocal evidence that Earth is warming at an unprecedented rate. Human activity is the principal cause.”, then we humans are probably to blame.

Anyone parenting more than two offspring is contributing to more humans than the planet can cope with. Reducing the world population by 50% would slow down the warming, stopping motor racing would also help.

We all know actions that can be taken by each individual to solve/reduce the problem but few individuals actually make the move.
Building houses on a wooded slope in an area of low rainfall is not the brightest idea around. Perhaps they should interact with the people building houses on flood plains.

Volcanic eruptions contributes to the problem too but humans aren’t trying to stop those.

Life for humans is a risk and will be until they change their way of living.

Best wishes for 2025.

[jonnewell]

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If this statement is accurate “ There is unequivocal evidence that Earth is warming at an unprecedented rate. Human activity is the principal cause.”, then we humans are probably to blame.

Anyone parenting more than two offspring is contributing to more humans than the planet can cope with. Reducing the world population by 50% would slow down the warming, stopping motor racing would also help.

We all know actions that can be taken by each individual to solve/reduce the problem but few individuals actually make the move.
Building houses on a wooded slope in an area of low rainfall is not the brightest idea around. Perhaps they should interact with the people building houses on flood plains.

Volcanic eruptions contributes to the problem too but humans aren’t trying to stop those.

Life for humans is a risk and will be until they change their way of living.

Best wishes for 2025.

Damn I should have kept it in my pants rather than have my son(3rd child).

Then again maybe I should have put the blame on China, India,Indonesia or Brazil for using excessive amounts of fossil fuels and destroying the Earth's lungs by deforestation.

It seems the West is feeling so guilty that we are willingly being penalised so the real culprits are getting away scot free.

[raptor9]

C.24. Football contributes far far more to pollution than motor racing ever does. Hundreds of flights to European Championships for spectators etc., repeated on the return leg, taking place most weeks throughout the season and other games taking place frequently on most days of the week throughout the year, and throughout the world. People traveling hither and thither by cars etc., Stopping football will definitely help matters. It is, without doubt, the worst polluting sport!!. Motor Racing takes place over a shorter season, and is watched by far fewer people.[ This post is slightly tongue in cheek, but I'm making a point}. Motor Racing brings in a large income to this country incidentally. I do, however agree with your comments re population tho'. Happy 2025, regards, John.

[Nighthawke]

I wonder how an F1 car compares to an F-35 or Typhoon or Boeing/Airbus airliner or any other aircraft in terms of carbon footprint? Rhetorical question maybe but an attempt to illustrate the point that the comment re banning F1. Perhaps we should revert to the dark ages and ban everything that generates anything that damages the planet. Before anyone makes accusations I am fully aware and accepting ofglobal warming but trying to be realistic. Now where did I put my "The end of the world is nigh" banner?

[James Cutting]

.

If this statement is accurate “ There is unequivocal evidence that Earth is warming at an unprecedented rate. Human activity is the principal cause.”, then we humans are probably to blame.

Anyone parenting more than two offspring is contributing to more humans than the planet can cope with. Reducing the world population by 50% would slow down the warming, stopping motor racing would also help.

We all know actions that can be taken by each individual to solve/reduce the problem but few individuals actually make the move.
Building houses on a wooded slope in an area of low rainfall is not the brightest idea around. Perhaps they should interact with the people building houses on flood plains.

Volcanic eruptions contributes to the problem too but humans aren’t trying to stop those.

Life for humans is a risk and will be until they change their way of living.

Best wishes for 2025.

How many children did your parents have? How many did you have?

The individuals won’t make the difference. There is too many opinions of “why should I bother doing it if no one else will?”

Maybe, just maybe, these Governments actually pulled their fingers out and did something to help we’d be in a better place. Massive polluters like India, China & the US will never change their ways. Instead, you expect us mere mortals to pop the plastic lid on the bottle to help? Mm. The American numbnuts have just voted someone in who thinks Global Warming is a farce, and wants to invade a NATO country. Says a lot!

Until these multimillionaire CEOs get their cr4p together and the Govts. then it won’t change. No matter if Jeff has 0 or 6 kids.

[James Cutting]

What about all them spotters at LN for those Raptors? Lots of cars, lots of pollution…

(I can say that I was there!)

[slogen51]

For once I believe the UK are really leading the way in this area - recently on average over 50% of electricity generation is from renewables and quite regularly, according to bulletins on the radio the percentage is 100% for a particular day - an amazing achievement given how relatively recently wind power technology has been developed to generate electricity. A nod to our ancestors who built windmills to mill and pump water.

I read with amazement a comment further up this thread about plugging volcanoes !

Some good stuff in the news showing DC-10 ( or are they MD-11?) water bombers in use on the LA fires but a bit late - the authorities knew that it was a tinder box and in these times of global warming need to be on high alert.

Apparently smoke is a common sight in the hills around LA but now it can't just be assumed it will burn it self out. Humans are extremely adaptable and those living in dry wooded areas not just in the USA will need to pay a lot more attention to fire management and also to designs and materials that are more resistant to burning?

[iainpeden]

The skills and bravery of the firefighting crews, ground based as well as aerial, has to be lauded. The turnaround times must be really short to take off, drop,land, refill and go again.
Interesting facts on Radio5 just now; the retardant is red to be seen (pretty obvious) but it also contains fertiliser to feed the vegitation the following season - otherwise any rain will simply wash all the soil away and leave the hills totally bare down to rock.

As for renewable energy; why not legislate that all new houses have to have solar panels, heat pumps with appropriate radiators and pipework and storage batteries- then invest in UK owned and based factories to build the panels, pumps and batteries so as not to import it all from China?

PS
So far I have seen film/pictures of a DC-10, Chinook, CL-415, CH-53 (or similar), Huey and a twin turboprop airliner (ATR-42???); the days of WW2 era a/c are gone but are C-130s still in use?

[raptor9]

Iain I agree completely about house building with Solar etc., Had my panels for 10 years now, and because my bungalow faces southwest, am able to divert a large amount to the National Grid, to the benefit of the supply, and my bank balance!! Reverting to my slightly inane post regarding football as a polluter, I was appalled last year to see a chartered Boeing 737 being used to transport the Newcastle team to Liverpool for the match and return later in the day. With the time involved, checking in etc., it would probably have been quicker, and less polluting to use a luxury coach!!. Motor Racing is a very minor polluter!!. Happy 2025 Iain.

[James Cutting]

I disagree that F1/motorsport is a minor polluter. What about all the private jets used by the racers to 24 different countries? All the flights for the teams? All the trucks and lorries that ship the cars, parts, garages etc? All the fans that fly, drive etc to races around the world when some attendances are 140,000+ over a weekend? That’s worse than a short return flight from Liverpool to Newcastle!

[raptor9]

I gave just one example, James. I believe that Premiership teams use chartered aircraft for matches over 200 miles distance, and certainly for European matches. I believe Turkish Alrlines were their travel partner a few years ago, using longhaul jets for short distances in Europe. Airliners are not electric. Many of the F.1 trucks are hybrid, and some are also electric, particularly DHL who are used on many occasions by the F.1 teams, and they don't always return the equipment back to base when in Europe, or the Far East for that matter. The mechanics, commentators etc., travel on scheduled airliners, and many of the drivers, particularly the Monaco ones, drive to and from when in Europe. I should have said that Motor Racing was a minor polluter compared to football.

[James Cutting]

Fair point, hadn’t thought of it that way. I still think a lot needs to be done by the Governments/CEOs out there though. Because what’s happening in LA will become very normal very soon. But unless it’s increasing their wealth they aren’t interested.

[XWP29]

Sad times in California.

Picking up on some of the reporting. The fact that records only began about 200 years ago, (used in the LA fires/climate change news), is really a minuscule time frame in comparison to the 4.5 Billion year history of the Earth and it's numerous climate change events.

Has the ability to stop man made climate change passed? The Industrial revolution and the standard of living most of us enjoy, or others aspire too, is the cause?

While Carbon emissions continue to grow, is it not time that Governments (shunning the Davos set) set about adaption to the actual predictions of CC in the likely event that it is not going to be headed off. Yet I suspect that 'we' will be unlikely to accept the privations and changes required while also noting that 200 years ago people rarely even left their parish in their life time.

[slogen51]

One of the issues of human induced climate change is not so much that the climate is changing, as inferred above the Earths climate is always changing, one of the chief causes is our planet's wobbly orbit around the Sun, but it is the RATE of change that is causing problems as the environment fauna and flora isn't able to adapt quick enough.

Previously it seems that the temperature of our planet would warm up or cool down over tens of thousands of years but according to most scientific research human industrial output ( emissions) or activity is causing the climate to warm up in less then 200 years.

Also increasing population means some of us are more likely to live in the path of a natural disaster.

It's not the first time humans have b&ggered things up - once Egypt was green and fertile until they cut all the trees down

I don't know what the answers are - someone needs to crack nuclear fusion and quickly!

[Col Nago]

Coulson (C-130 amongst others) and Neptune Aviation (various) are all involved in the fire fighting, and the National Guard have now deployed C-130 using MAFFS. The reason the majority of the larger aircraft weren’t active in the early days was due to the extremely high winds. Only rotor and the Quebec pair could go up, and not always. This isn’t a ‘forest fire’, it’s a canyon fire. You cannot fly a large, heavily laden aircraft up a canyon into 100mph winds, dense smoke and accurately drop retardant, let alone do it safely.

[iainpeden]

As we're moving away from "just" the LA Fires, here's a place to visit - near Cody, Wyoming on the eastern route into Yellowstone.

https://www.museumofflight.us/

Just watch out for rattle snakes.

[C24]

Related to CC, the amount of concrete and energy to produce the materials for wind turbines is interesting

https://www.windsystemsmag.com/laying-t ... he-future/

James, parents 1; then 1-1 &1.
Volcanoes and climate change. https://www.science.smith.edu/climateli ... 1815-1818/

Back to the fires. There is much less effort applied to removing the fuel of the fires than is involved in fighting them. Although not an easy solution the timber retrieved could be used. Of course there are examples of controlled trash burning but that just puts the stuff into the atmosphere anyway.

Finally, , as for keeping it in your shorts, not necessarily a route to take

Off to my local military airfield wasting fuel for purely individual pleasure. Daft, ennit?

[slogen51]

I think given the changing pattern of the weather in that area they will need a QRA philosophy - if a fire of any kind is spotted either by satellite or eyes then it must be treated as hostile and dangerous and extinguished. I maybe wrong but I think it is easy to be blasé and assume it will burn out or travel away from towns etc

[Col Nago]

They already do that. They have helipads and huge tanks of water all over that area for the Blackhawks, Chinooks and the other fire fighting rotor types. These fires aren’t new to California, and they don’t sit around waiting for them to grow before taking action. There are also fire spotting stations, as there are all across North America.