Chancellor statement

[iainpeden]

The Rwanda money has been spent - i thought I read in the media we are not getting the money back?

If this is accurate Labour have already deported more than Rishi's gang.

https://twitter.com/MikeHolden42/status ... _&ref_url=

[slogen51]

Great the consensus seems that it is a good idea?

That surprises me quite honestly - I only created the thread as I thought it seemed more like a Tory policy and genuinely wanted to know what others thought

The government have a massive majority so this as mentioned is just the beginning

I will be a pensioner this November - starting to sound like a member of the smug club

[slogen51]

The Rwanda money has been spent - i thought I read in the media we are not getting the money back?

If this is accurate Labour have already deported more than Rishi's gang.

https://twitter.com/MikeHolden42/status ... _&ref_url=

Wow that is interesting if true - Labour did win the election - seem more Tory than the Tories?

Keep it up

[atech]

don't forget that we pensioners still have the advantage of the triple lock.

For the time being, until some other “better deserving group” start rattling cages.

Who was it that stated that this labour government was totally different from the Wilson/Callahan/Blair/Corbin fraternity

[XWP29]

The Rwanda money has been spent - i thought I read in the media we are not getting the money back?

If this is accurate Labour have already deported more than Rishi's gang.

https://twitter.com/MikeHolden42/status ... _&ref_url=

Wow that is interesting if true - Labour did win the election - seem more Tory than the Tories?

Keep it up

X or accredited figures showing deportations by year.

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/r ... om-the-uk/

[slogen51]

Interesting

This caught my eye - only 1% of small boat arrivals have been returned - I guess the problem is we don't know where they came from ( France obviously but they don't have passports)

"small proportion of people who arrived in the UK irregularly via small boats between 2018 and 30 June 2023 – 1,319 people or 1.3% of all small boat arrivals – were returned from the UK during that period. Individuals can be returned to their country of origin or a safe third country they had previously passed through."

[slogen51]

Some background to pensions

There are ( in 2023) 12.7 million pensioners in the UK and now roughly 10 million pensioners will no longer receive the £300 winter allowance saving £3 billion - sounds a lot but the NHS budget in 2023 was £163 Billion

You could argue that the whole point of the winter fuel allowance is to help warm your home and hopefully keep you in better health thius alleviating the burden on the NHS if in just a small way - plus it provided a massive feeling of well being which is important - one of the best things the Blair Government did I think

The Unions seem happy enough according to the BBC

"More school strikes in England are "now unlikely", teaching unions have said, as they welcomed the government's offer of a 5.5% pay rise from September."

[time on target]

Very sorry to see the winter fuel allowance cancelled and yes I am a pensioner. However, I don't mind loosing it but it does seem unfair to pick on this section of the community. It is a great pity that the Government has said nothing about a wealth tax which would mean nothing to these people or making some of these multi national companies pay their tax and not be let off by HMRC with petty amounts.

[raptor9]

I agree with ToT . There are pensioners, and there are pensioners. Some of us can well afford to loose it, and there has been much discussion over the last couple of years in our comfortably off community as to why the Government keeps giving us the Winter Payment. Being over 80, I get even more than I used to!. I think it's very hard on the not so well off though. If they are just above the benefit line, then it might well make a substantial difference to them. Problem is of course, that to means test all pensioners is not at all practical, hence the blanket decision, I guess.

[slogen51]

Pensioners on means tested benefits will still get the allowance

I personally still think it's harsh - basically the savings will go into people's pockets via pay rises

It doesn't even save that much money plus it was a good cause - I totally understand the difference between better off and the less well off , it's obvious really

Maybe a better solution would be to opt out if you have too much money!!

You could make a case that successive Governments have regarded the payment as part of the total pension package and now effectively reduced the pension on a group of people who are not represented by unions and are usually unable to increase their earning capacity.

The more I think about it I think it's wrong - basically rather than saying to public sector workers that the last government bankrupted the country ( they didn't) and that we are shaving 1 or 2 percent off your next pay increase it is easier to raid easy targets rather than face down the unions

[Sparts99]

My mum and mum in law both got the payment when they were alive, they didn't need it and gave it to the grandkids. Its an automatic payment to all pensioners as I understand it, perhaps if they made it a benefit that has to be claimed it would cut down a lot of payments as those like some on here wouldn't claim it as they don't need it. The problems start with means testing and all the admin and associated costs that go with it. Limiting it to pensioners who are on additional benefits (again if I've understood correctly) is a straightforward process, is there an appeal process if you lose the winter payment?

As for the benefit fraudsters, my partner works for DWP, the fraud department has been cut as said in this thread elsewhere by political choice of austerity and the claims and decisions that get 'sent up' for investigation can take years to resolve, sometimes just not dealt with at all. A similar choice was cutting the investigations department at HMRC, I recall rading that that department retreived eight times the departmental cost in catching tax evaders and avoiders. Benefit fraud is tiny compared to tax evasion and avoidance.

[baz1]

Reeves used to work for the Bank of England and they didn't do people any favours with Mortgages put the interest rate up but not for savers, winter fuel is just the start i'm afraid, when Rishi/Starmer
had the head to head on TV Rishi warned what would happen i wonder can they fiddle with the Tripple lock ?? oh and Reeves stated conservatives were covering up the dire state or Finances But all infomation on the economy was publicly available all along !

it's ok Labour building all these so called new houses who can afford to buy one ?

[James Cutting]

it's ok Labour building all these so called new houses who can afford to buy one ?

Carrying on the building that the Tories were doing, so it's just the same?

Savings rates are more favourable for savers in the past 18 months for the first time in a long time, and mortgages are also slowly becoming more affordable for first time buyers, and stamp duty is still not payable under £425k for first time buyers. Granted, most still need help to be able to afford. All thanks to Lizz and Kwasi for screwing up everyone's mortgages!

[James Cutting]

From BBC:

From winter 2024 fuel payments in England and Wales will be restricted to those on benefits and pension credit

The devolved governments in Scotland and Northern Ireland will make a decision on whether to follow the new policy

Pension credit is a benefit that is based on income and savings.

You could be eligible for pension credit if you are above state pension age and have an income of less that £218.15 a week, or less than £332.95 as a joint weekly income with your partner.

But your savings are also taken into account, and mean you may not be eligible even if your income is low.

Disabled people, those caring for someone, and those with housing costs could be eligible despite these factors

So, there will still be those not strictly on 'benefits' or 'pension credit' can still receive the allowance. And if you have a low income, but a healthy savings account, you are unlikely to receive it either, which is fair enough. Sure, it will affect a lot of people, but things need to change don't they. Got to also think about the future and balance things out, which means upsetting people along the way.

[Sparts99]

Reeves used to work for the Bank of England and they didn't do people any favours with Mortgages put the interest rate up but not for savers, winter fuel is just the start i'm afraid, when Rishi/Starmer
had the head to head on TV Rishi warned what would happen i wonder can they fiddle with the Tripple lock ?? oh and Reeves stated conservatives were covering up the dire state or Finances But all infomation on the economy was publicly available all along !

it's ok Labour building all these so called new houses who can afford to buy one ?

The banks dictate interest rates to savers, the BoE have no say in commercial decisions like that, they just set the base rate. And the whole point of building more houses is to take the heat out of the housing market and stop prices rising out of all proportion to people's incomes. The Office of Budget Responsibility is launching a review into the figures supplied by the last government since the £20bn shortfall was announced by Rachel Reeve.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6p24zpeg05o

"But that aside, the OBR has made clear there were billions of pounds of spending pressures that it did not know about when preparing its last forecast in March.

The spending was only revealed to them last week, the letter said, and given the “seriousness of the issue” the OBR has launched a review into the March forecast to assess the “adequacy” and “assurances” provided by the Conservatives."

So it appears that the last government supplied spending predictions figures that were significantly lower than the truth. Liz truss tried to get the OBR abolished, the job of the OBR is to hold the governement to account for financial planning. So in the light of that I'd say the figures weren't publicly avaialble, there was a concerted effort to hide them.

[James Cutting]

Surely not the Tories sweeping things under the rug...again

[iainpeden]

Reeves stated conservatives were covering up the dire state or Finances But all infomation on the economy was publicly available all along !

All together now - "Oh no it wasn't."

[baz1]

Surely not the Tories sweeping things under the rug...again

and Reeves stated in March she would Not cut public spending

[Sparts99]

See my post above. The Conservative government at that time gave misleading figures which everyone was working from, now that the books have been looked at and the truth is coming out cuts will be necessary. The tories gave those figures to make themselves look good in an election year. Don't get me wrong, I don't want cuts, wherever cuts happen people suffer. If its of interest I'll be retiring during this parliament, hopefully anyway. Liz Truss and Kwasi Karteng cost me two years worth of pension contributions.

[raptor9]

Having had time to reflect on the Government's decision, I feel that it is a little too draconian to be too acceptable. Possibly a little more friendly, without costing too much money, would have been to continue the payments to the over 80's, [me]
giving them an alternative to opt out of the payment if they wish. This group is particularly vulnerable in winter, and probably need more care and attention with heating bills, because they will tend to be in their houses more than the younger of us.

I would opt out of it, because my health and circumstances are fine. Maybe the Government would change their minds on this and modify it but I'm not going to hold my breath!.