Yes Minister!

[slogen51]

So Jim Hacker has been replaced by Kier Starmer but Sir Humphrey Appleby is still in office.

Seems questionable that all the ministers changed but the permanent secretaries stay in office - that is how the system of government in this country works - consistency i guess

So basically at number 11 only one person has a new job

4 million votes and only five MPs - another anomaly?

[Pauld339]

I mean, do you really want totally new people in every job every four years (or less)? Surely better to have people with you know a bit of knowledge and experience sprinkled around...

[Nighthawke]

Figureheads quite often. Civil servants do the work and have the knowledge and experience.

[slogen51]

Only putting it out there - keep it reasonable or we will be edited/moderated again

I think it is reasonable that the permanent secretaries reapply if required

[Pauld339]

They may be figureheads, but persuading ministers away from their more bonkers ideas and towards potentially more sensible ones strikes me as pretty important, and not a skill that many people have.

In my view, short term populism is one of the main problems with politics in this country - longer term thinking unaffected by elections and popularity would benefit us greatly. I see stability/consistency in the upper echelons of the civil service as helpful in that regard.

[slogen51]

I completely agree

But it's worth questioning and saying yep it's a good safe guard. Others might regard them as the 'Establishment'

[Pauld339]

Indeed!

[STN RAMP RAT]

So Jim Hacker has been replaced by Kier Starmer but Sir Humphrey Appleby is still in office.

Seems questionable that all the ministers changed but the permanent secretaries stay in office - that is how the system of government in this country works - consistency i guess

A summary of some facts on https://constitution-unit.com/

The UK civil service is permanent and politically impartial, they are forbidden from offering political advice to ministers – a role performed instead by special advisers. The civil service is not independent. Its fundamental role is to serve actively the government of the day in policy development and delivery. Because civil servants continue in post when ministers change, the civil service functions as a keeper of institutional memory The civil service is also expected to act as a constitutional guardian when needed – warning ministers if a potential course of action might be unlawful or could violate constitutional norms.

All of the Special Advisors left their position on Friday and I am sure that new special advisors will appear to support the Government ministers.

4 million votes and only five MPs - another anomaly?

This is a result of our voting system, which I agree with. We vote for an individual to representative our constituency in Parliment and not a political party. The candidate with the most votes represents the consituency in parliament. In your case you voted for Liz Truss because, I assume, you thought she was the best candidate for you. You didnt, and couldn't, vote for the Conservative Party.

[slogen51]

I voted ( don't laugh!) for a conservative government

I didn't want to vote for Truss ( my neighbour didn't vote) and would preferred she was deselected

The current voting system is the status quo but I have come to believe the system has some major faults

For local issues we have the mid term or council elections thanks

[steamy]

4 million votes and only five MPs - another anomaly?

This is a result of our voting system, which I agree with. We vote for an individual to representative our constituency in Parliment and not a political party. The candidate with the most votes represents the consituency in parliament. In your case you voted for Liz Truss because, I assume, you thought she was the best candidate for you. You didnt, and couldn't, vote for the Conservative Party.

We've heard "Brexit means Brexit" a lot over the years... "Labour means Labour" is now somehow triggering

[cat1]

I'm coming to the conclusion more and more that the public think politicians are lazy people (some are, some aren't, that's another story.)

I wish people would see the leg work required to get a bill on the kings desk nowadays. Endless amendments, law changes while the bill is being processed requiring a re write.

I understand that's not an excuse for having a party while in lockdown, but a bill to change the approved kerbstone manufacturer for military bases took 9 months.

Something as big as the Rwanda policy would have take years to be fully approved, showing that any big labour promises MUST be actioned in the next year to avoid the over-promise under-deliver principal.

Following that rant, back on topic.

From my friends within the commons I can confirm that it takes a lifetime to know the rules and procedures and ceremony of parliament perfectly, so having a established civil servants within the corridors of power as it were, seems logical to make sure that the transfer of power and continued smooth-running of a supreme legislative body which was established 223 years ago.

*and breathe*

[atech]

Oh so we are allowed to have political discussions on this forum, or is only the chosen few?

My post of a couple of days ago was deleted, and whichever mod/administrator was responsible didn’t even have the decency to contact me and tell me why

I thought that this kind of restriction on free speech was why we fought WWII and the Cold War for 40 years.

No doubt this post will go the same way

Atech, a founder member and previous sponsor of FC

[STN RAMP RAT]

Oh so we are allowed to have political discussions on this forum, or is only the chosen few?

My post of a couple of days ago was deleted, and whichever mod/administrator was responsible didn’t even have the decency to contact me and tell me why

I thought that this kind of restriction on free speech was why we fought WWII and the Cold War for 40 years.

No doubt this post will go the same way

Atech, a founder member and previous sponsor of FC

Atech, whilst it wasnt me that deleted the post I can see it was quite inflamitory, a little like this one. I locked the General election thread as the election had taken place and the thread was drifting and requiring moderation. This thread asked a specific question and so long as the the responses are on topic and polite they will remain, off topic or antagonistic posts will be "moderated".

Personally I would like to see a ban on political threads that are not directly referencing defense and more specifically Aviation but we dont have that yet.

[STN RAMP RAT]

I voted ( don't laugh!) for a conservative government, I didn't want to vote for Truss ( my neighbour didn't vote) and would preferred she was deselected

Thats the issue, I dont think its commonly understood these days that no one is voting for a party and everyone is voting for a representative who may at that time be affiliated to a party but is not required to remain so. If it was the Conservative party you were voting for and that person defected to Reform or "worse" Labour, would that nessecatate a by election because the person you voted for no longer represented the party you voted for?

if we were voting for a party what would happen if that

The current voting system is the status quo but I have come to believe the system has some major faults

Alternative systems also have their faults, The European elections used a list system where you voted for a party and that party selected the order the candidates were elected in. There was no way to prevent a candidte being elected if the party wanted it to happen. Alternative systems are also much more likley to result in coilition government and that does not work in the UK in my opinion. (Discussion on this would take us off topic and I would have to delete my post ) The Lib Dems understood how to maximise our current system and did very well winning seats, Reform didnt and therefore didnt do as well as they might have done had they understood the rules.

[atech]

Stn ramp rat

Thankyou for your reply.

My previous post was intended to provoke some debate and counter some of the falsehoods which had been posted prior to mine. Whilst some may disagree with what I posted, it was entirely factual. I was annoyed that whoever took the action to delete my post chose to hide behind anonymity, rather than take responsibility for their action. Power without responsibility is a very dangerous thing.

People need to see both sides of the debate, and remember that even in these days of wokeness and political correctness everyone still has the right to be offended.

I served my time to protect those rights as did my father before my and my grandfathers before him. I take great offence when someone tries to ride roughshod over them.

Once again thank you for your reply, at least you have the courage to put your head above the parapet.

[slogen51]

Thanks but I think most of us really do have a basic understanding of constituencies and general elections and mother Teresa could have been my local labour representative but I would vote for the party I want to Govern the country - quite straightforward really

Local elections for local issues. General elections for national Government

By the way I think the general chat area is a valuable outlet for folk to discuss the recent elections - it is interesting to see what other people think. Of course it can get lively ( I was called a baby boomer fascist ) - as it does in the House of Commons but as long as people don't get too personal it should in my opinion be allowed to flow - it will soon die out after a week or two when we settle into the new regime and bore of the subject.

[XWP29]

Thanks but I think most of us really do have a basic understanding of constituencies and general elections and mother Teresa could have been my local labour representative but I would vote for the party I want to Govern the country - quite straightforward really

Local elections for local issues. General elections for national Government

By the way I think the general chat area is a valuable outlet for folk to discuss the recent elections - it is interesting to see what other people think. Of course it can get lively ( I was called a baby boomer fascist ) - as it does in the House of Commons but as long as people don't get too personal it should in my opinion be allowed to flow - it will soon die out after a week or two when we settle into the new regime and bore of the subject.

Baby boomer Facist?

[atech]

No. I believe that as a service veteran of a certain age I am regarded as a right wing extremist.

[gamecock]

Personally I would like to see a ban on political threads

You could have stopped there and got my vote. Keep that garbage on Facebook where I can ignore it!

[C24]

4 million votes and only five MPs - another anomaly?

We vote for an individual to representative our constituency in Parliment and not a political party. The candidate with the most votes represents the consituency in parliament. In your case you voted for Liz Truss because, I assume, you thought she was the best candidate for you. You didnt, and couldn't, vote for the Conservative Party.

If this is accurate then it illustrates another error in my comprehension over the years. Doesn’t a party select a candidate to represent that party in a constituency.?
All the bumph sent here reads something like vote YYY for your Xxx candidate.
If that person becomes an MP they are expected to follow the party line/whip.
Only if a candidate stands as an Independent can your comment be accurate.

Memo to self… Take screenshot immediately after posting.
Even better, take shot of preview ‘cos the mods can’t have seen the post