Should elderly drivers be forced to re-sit their driving test?

[Mike]

Yesterday I bought some fuel at my local ASDA and then went to check my tyre pressures before winter really starts to descend on the Scottish Highlands, an elderly couple were already checking the tyre pressures on their rather flash new(ish)-looking BMW estate that had private plates attached (they may have already been there from the day before)..............

I parked about 30 feet behind them (to give them plenty of room to reverse out), and waited, and waited, and waited and watched, and God I waited........................

The very elderly chap kept pushing the valve on the hose into the valve on each tyre, but he just kept shaking his head and shouting to the lady that it wasn't working, then he came over to me (I'd been sat waiting for at least 20 minutes by now), he said "I hope you're not waiting to check your tyre pressures because that machine doesn't work" - so I went to have a look.

I went over and Mrs elderly person was in charge of putting money into the machine, her hands were shaking violently (certainly not from the cold) and she couldn't tell one coin from another even with her specs on.
I said to her that it only worked with 10p, 20p and 50p coins (as that what it says in large writing on the front of the machine), and that 20p gives 2 minutes. She was handing coins to her husband(?) and asking "is that a 5p, 10p or 20p" (at least one of them was a 50p amongst 2p and 1p coins), he couldn't tell which coin was which either and his hands also shook. So I took over at this point to get them on their way as there were now 4 very bored drivers waiting in the queue. She had been filling it with 5 pence coins which it doesn't accept and they come straight back out.

I asked him what pressure should be in his tyres and that's when the fun really started, he said 24 psi at the back and 22 at the front - is that right for a rather large BMW estate as it seems rather low, does anyone know?

He spent ages trying to get the dust-cap off one of his rear wheels, eventually connected the hose and the machine said 30 psi, I said "that sounds about right for that car", but he was determined to reduce it to 24 psi. I said to him "so why not set the machine to 24 psi?" He didn't know that he could adjust the default pressure on the machine from 26 to another pressure by using the 'plus' and 'minus' buttons, the instructions are very clear and easy to read on the machine, so why can neither of them read them?

I think he suddenly felt suitably embarrassed at this point, he thanked me for my help and called it a day.

I got back in my car and waited for him to reverse back - eventually he moved about 10 feet (because he didn't use his mirrors and probably couldn't turn his neck), he did a 'several' point turn and drove off.

[March]

I wonder: is this a rethorical question?

As to your experiance: I sympathise as I feel the same in the supermarket when citizen of the age you describe obstruct the pathway with their walkers (primarily to chat and select cheap wine) while I'm in a rush between appointments. It take some yoga to remain respectfull for age and wisdom....

I only hope that when I reach that age, I'm still able to climb the lorrie at John's, and youngsters than have patienece with me...

Kind regards,
Marc H. (Netherlands)

[Freeman Lowell]

Marc,
I commend you to read Hendrik Groen's book - 'Pogingen iets van het leven te maken: Het geheime dagboek van Hendrik Groen, 83 1/4 jaar' .
You will like it. Freeman

[Thunder]

We certainly have our fair share of describe drivers up here Mike, there’s an elderly gentleman driving around town in a top of the range Range Rover with distinctive plates on it, and he hasn’t got a clue. I’ve seen him indicate left at a roundabout only to turn right, seen him career straight through three lanes on a roundabout cutting up several drivers, driving in a 70 mph zone at 25 mph etc etc...... I’ve been close to reporting this person to the police on a number of occasions but without another witness or video evidence they won’t do anything.

I’m a firm believer that a driving license should be renewed every 10yrs up to the age of 70, which would include an hours driving examination to include both practical and theory, along with a doctors letter stating medically fit to drive. After 70 yrs then every 2 yrs.

[GaryS]

We certainly have our fair share of describe drivers up here Mike, there’s an elderly gentleman driving around town in a top of the range Range Rover with distinctive plates on it, and he hasn’t got a clue. I’ve seen him indicate left at a roundabout only to turn right, seen him career straight through three lanes on a roundabout cutting up several drivers, driving in a 70 mph zone at 25 mph etc etc...... I’ve been close to reporting this person to the police on a number of occasions but without another witness or video evidence they won’t do anything.

I’m a firm believer that a driving license should be renewed every 10yrs up to the age of 70, which would include an hours driving examination to include both practical and theory, along with a doctors letter stating medically fit to drive. After 70 yrs then every 2 yrs.

Prince Phillip by any chance?

[slogen51]

I must be getting old as my attention span only reached as far as the fifth paragraph!

[Mike]

We certainly have our fair share of describe drivers up here Mike, there’s an elderly gentleman driving around town in a top of the range Range Rover with distinctive plates on it, and he hasn’t got a clue. I’ve seen him indicate left at a roundabout only to turn right, seen him career straight through three lanes on a roundabout cutting up several drivers, driving in a 70 mph zone at 25 mph etc etc...... I’ve been close to reporting this person to the police on a number of occasions but without another witness or video evidence they won’t do anything.

I’m a firm believer that a driving license should be renewed every 10yrs up to the age of 70, which would include an hours driving examination to include both practical and theory, along with a doctors letter stating medically fit to drive. After 70 yrs then every 2 yrs.

Hi Scott, I've not had the pleasure of witnessing your Range Rover driver yet and really don't want to either!

What really worried me about this chap (and his co-driver) was their eyesight, how does he read his instruments on the dashboard? I also have doubts about the tyre pressures being 22 & 24 psi, I think he's misread the manual and they should really be 2.2 & 2.4 bar, which equates to 32 & 35 psi - so possibly he's trying to drive around on seriously under-inflated rubber.

[Ghastly Whisper]

Candidates for rather late darwinian awards....as for the tyre pressures...32 to 35....what treally scares me is that these are just two examples, there are thousands nay millions more....

[C24]

Sounds like a good idea.

Perhaps drivers on phones should be summarily shot; lorry drivers taught not to take several miles trying to overtake similar vehicles travelling in convoy.

And on and on...why pick on old people? Share your anger on the whole population of poor drivers.

[baz1]

too true and I bet some younger ones dont know what a sustained gear change is or how to do a two point turn ??

[Supra]

too true and I bet some younger ones dont know what a sustained gear change is or how to do a two point turn ??

I've forgotten this 'Sustained Rev's Gear Change' since the days when my clutch cable snapped on my Peugeot 205 GTI.(could do a single point 360 in that ) I personally find that my 8 speed Auto-box changes faster/smoother than any manual shift I could ever do!
Regarding the Tyre Pressure issue, most cars these days have the data 'on the car'. Indeed the BMW has it just in the opening face of the Driver's side 'B Pillar' ( the vertical bit that the Driver's door latches to. ) This sticker gives the correct "Cold Pressure" for every tyre/wheel size available for that model plus "3 x Load Conditions". I can guarantee that 24 PSI will NOT feature anywhere on that! MUCH more likely to be 2.4 Bar = 35 PSI.
Note that Garage gauges are notoriously inaccurate anyway, largely due to rough treatment! I over-inflate the tyres beyond the figure x 5psi when close to home, then re-check them & adjust to Spec' after they have cooled!
Regarding 'old Gits' & eyesight it's not always the case that somebody that can't see anything within the length of their arm, can't see clearly beyond that. But if they need glasses….wear them.
However, I do subscribe to more frequent medicals for over-seventies to ascertain other limiting functions as well, such as inability to turn your head fully left to right in a reasonably quick time. Traffic at junctions is so heavy these days, taking 12 seconds to turn 90 left to 90 right aint gonna cut the mustard!

[baz1]

I fail to see how anyone can quote tyre pressures without knowing model year, engine size V8 straight four petrol/ diesel tyre and wheel size etc.

[Alfie]

With reference to C24 slur on lorry drivers, has he ever tried driving a lorry with restriction on it. Perhaps if he did he would understand the experience of pulling out of the slipstream of the vehicle in front of you because it is going slower than yourself being hit by the full blast of air and still trying hard to overtake because you are trying to maintain your speed, then he might understand the problems of HGV driving.

[Mike]

I fail to see how anyone can quote tyre pressures without knowing model year, engine size V8 straight four petrol/ diesel tyre and wheel size etc.

If you Google tyre pressures BMW then all of the results show that tyres on BMWs should be between 30-35 psi depending on the model. Having seriously under-inflated tyres affects braking distance, stability & handling, causes friction which heats up the tyre and could cause blow-outs and wears out the outer tread of the tyre very quickly.

Does anyone know if candidates in driving tests these days are asked about the importance of having the correct pressures and if they know about both the bar and psi scales?

By the way, to convert bar to psi then just multiply by 14.5 and you'll be very close (or just use the conversion site on Google).

[Mike]

No mate, a clueless elderly gentleman (and his other half) that couldn't identify any coins, couldn't read the very clear instructions on the tyre pressure machine and thought his tyre pressures should be 22 & 24, which are stupidly too low. He was doing his best to let the pressure out of safe tyres to make them unsafe.
Not only that but we have no snow up here and none is forecast!

Edit :- I see that Richard B ("Moderator") has deleted his ridiculous post that I was referring to.

[Richard B]

No mate, a clueless elderly gentleman (and his other half) that couldn't identify any coins, couldn't read the very clear instructions on the tyre pressure machine and thought his tyre pressures should be 22 & 24, which are stupidly too low. He was doing his best to let the pressure out of safe tyres to make them unsafe.
Not only that but we have no snow up here and none is forecast!

See what you mean, if they cannot see coins then there eyesight is poor, could be close up but ok long rang?.
Thou yes they are some old drivers that are a liability, but more younger drivers are more of a liability, .mobile phones drinking posh coffee, watching a screen while smoking a spliff. While playing with the passenger or vice a versa tend too speed etc etc. So the risks can be outweighed to a old couple that cannot see very well close up. Could be perfect at distance.

[Mike]

Rich, when I went to help them it was a bit like visiting people (that I've never met before) that had escaped from a nursing home.
There's lots of good old and young drivers about, it's just a shame that some of the old drivers can't admit that they can't cope with driving any more and should hand their licences back - but loads of them have no other way to get to the shops (especially up here) as they have no-one else to do it for them. There's really no answer for this.
There's a lot of absolute idiot young drivers around (there always has been), their time will come and karma is a great thing - especially after they've all paid several thousand of pounds for their third party insurance policies every year.

[Thunder]

I think the problems highlighted by Richard above, apply across the full age range of drivers, not just restricted to the young. As Mike pointed out in his original post if the couple couldn’t tell what coins were which, then no hope in hell they could read the dash on the car, and before anyone jumps in saying it’s not just old people that have bad eyesight, that is true. I have to wear contact lenses all the time in order to see and I wouldn’t even contemplate driving without them. A big problem with a lot of the elderly is that they just can’t accept that they’re not as able as they once were and refuse to believe otherwise for a number of reasons.

[AyrForce1]

Possibly of some interest here, from yesterday's Daily Mail:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... woman.html

[raptor9]

Ok. As an oldie, I shall reply. I am in my 78th year, always been interested in driving, was a Private Pilot for ten years, and a Driving Instructor [Grade 6] for 39, so perhaps a little qualified to comment on this. There is no doubt that as one's age increases, some abilities suffer. Therefore, whilst I consider that I still drive well, it has become increasingly important to CONCENTRATE on what is happening ahead and to avoid distractions. I have become very meticulous about checking for traffic at junctions, watching for traffic lights, pedestrian crossings etc. in towns, whereas before old age struck [in my mind I am still 28] these things would seem to manifest themselves automatically. I can still read a number plate at twice the legal distance, still without glasses. So, driving is still good for me, and safe for my passengers. I cannot, of course speak for other people, and there is no doubt at all that some elderly people should no longer be driving. I would like to feel that when I felt that it was no longer a safe thing for me to do, then I would be responsible enough, as some of my friends have already done, to decide that other peoples safety becomes paramount and to stop. Re-testing would be extremely costly and troublesome, because there would have to be a different criteria for older drivers than youngsters. I say this, because if the current driving test criteria was used, then nearly everyone who has been driving for a year or two would fail!!!!. What matters more than anything is concentration, strength of eyesight, and a test of reaction time. If a simple way of testing this could be done in a G.P. surgery, then I would be all for it. At the moment, to renew, all you have to do is sign to say you are o.k. and it's renewed!. I also go along with C.24s comments re other drivers, after driving to 220 miles to Bristol and back recently, particularly as regards youngsters and their ridiculous and highly dangerous lane swapping!!!