Fields around the Waddington approaches

[Thor]

After a few incidents today, please be aware that the fields around the approach at both ends are not available for use.
I spoke at length with the MD of the company that owns the land at both ends last week to try to arrange some form of access, but he wasn't amenable to it in any form. He's a thoroughly nice chap, but does have a business to run. Civpol have spoken to him prior to my conversation and are prepared to get involved if requested. The company's employees will be patrolling the land and will ask you to leave if they find you there.

It's private land, there is no 'right to roam' that entitles the public to walk where they want on private land. If you're asked to leave, please do so courteously & promptly (better still, don't go there in the first place..). There have been reports today of the company's employees being given abuse when asked to leave this private land - that's really not acceptable.

[Vr46]

You always get them. RESPECT.

[david chapman]

Hi Thor what base are you referring to?
Dave

[reaper493]

Sensible request, I have shared on the WAVE Facebook page, I fear it will unfortunately go ignored, especially for those seeking a shot of the Jets parked up down the far end, the same ones that turned up with ladders and plonked them hedge side today no doubt.

Thanks for trying,

Mike

[Thor]

Hi Thor what base are you referring to?
Dave

Waddington. Just edited the thread header to make it clear.

[david chapman]

Cheers Thor
Dave

[C24]

My apologies but I couldn't resist this.


" There have been reports today of the company's employees being given abuse when asked to leave this private land - that's really not acceptable. "

It really is serious when even the employees aren't allowed in the area.

Have fun

[Malcolm]

After a few incidents today, please be aware that the fields around the approach at both ends are not available for use.
I spoke at length with the MD of the company that owns the land at both ends last week to try to arrange some form of access, but he wasn't amenable to it in any form. He's a thoroughly nice chap, but does have a business to run. Civpol have spoken to him prior to my conversation and are prepared to get involved if requested. The company's employees will be patrolling the land and will ask you to leave if they find you there.

It's private land, there is no 'right to roam' that entitles the public to walk where they want on private land. If you're asked to leave, please do so courteously & promptly (better still, don't go there in the first place..). There have been reports today of the company's employees being given abuse when asked to leave this private land - that's really not acceptable.

That's all very well, except the Lincolnshire county council map of public rights of way show a footpath running from the B1178 up to the Waddington fence very close to where I understand the Israelis are parked.

http://row.lincolnshire.gov.uk/map.aspx?act=Walking

The reference is Wdgn/7/1 and from looking at Google Earth there is no obvious footpath through those fields. Perhaps you should point out to said landowner his responsibilities under the law to keep the footpaths clear. If it's clearly marked, most spotters would keep to it. I've not been yet, but if it is full of crops perhaps said landowner would prefer us to keep to the edges of the fields rather than use the footpath through the middle of his crops?

[reaper493]

Wasn't sure whether this deserved a new topic or not.

Security at the 02 end.

Just had a walk down to crash gate 5, staying on the public right of way the whole time. The Eagles are parked closer to the fence than first thought, they are parked on the bottom bomber dispersal, on the two right hand spots. There is a black rubber thing, potentially a sensor of some sort across the lane in to the bushes, about 2/3ft from the gate, potentially new as I've never seen it before.

I picked up my camera, took a shot and an Israeli military security guard appeared within 5 seconds of me arriving and started walking towards me. I quickly took a few more shots and started walking back, he carried on walking to the gate, he then stopped at the gate and watched me walk away.

I expected it to be quiet on a peaceful Saturday evening, not quite what I was expecting!! So if you do venture down the lane, be prepared to be met by security very quickly, and if the jets are running or about to be it wouldn't surprise me if there were patrols on the fence line next week. You can see the jets from an entrance to a field on the right before you get to the bottom, so if you're only wanting to see them, that would be one place to go, the other, potentially better place is a bus stop on the A607 where there's a gap in the Bush.

Hope this helps.

Mike

PS I haven't twisted this for dramatic effect etc.....

[Thunder]

Your security guard more than likely was Mossad. He probably only came to see what you were up to, you should’ve hung around and spoke to him telling that you only want to photograph the a/c and have no interest in pictures of crews both air or ground .

These security personnel operate at most places where El-Al fly into and I had first hand experience of it this year in Rhodes. Every time a flight from or to Israel occurs these security guys drive around the airport, if they see you at the fence they will stop and ask what you’re up to, once they’re statisfied that all you want is to photograph the a/c they will leave and continue their business, they aren’t as scary or intimidating as some make out they are. The crews have there own protocols to follow to stop them being identified such as de badging, visors down etc etc... however as a I’ve mentioned on another thread on here they were only too happy to pose full face with badges at Waddington back in 2001, the display pilot even give me a business card with his name and address on it, so I could send him some photographs of the display.

If they wanted to be really security conscience they would’ve picked a base where they could have put their a/c away from view all together like the HAS’s at Coningsby or Lakenheath or just don’t participate at all. They would’ve done their homework months before coming over and will be fully aware of the plane spotting fraternity and the interest that the Israeli AF would generate, remember that is was known since the beginning of the year that they were coming so hardly cloak and dagger.

[MiG_Eater]

Quite right Thunder.

I've never, ever, had problem with any base security. They've got a job to do, and we should all be glad they're doing it! Always worth saying hello and explaining what you're up to in my experience.

[Thunder]

Just occurred to me that before I went to Rhodes this year I read the spotters guide to Rhodes Airport, this is a quote

“When an Israeli flight is descending you will get visits from (Israeli) security 30 minutes in advance. But they don’t mind spotters/photographers and are quite friendly once you’ve seen them a couple of times. And don´t use a ladder if a flight from Israel is descending!

Coincidence or not ??

[IanH]

Good information all round and and excellent comment from Thunder. The sensible thing is to talk to whoever approaches. I might be missing something but nobody is breaking the law here; UK citizen walking on a UK public by way in the UK. There should be no problems on either side of the fence and I'm sure the IDF security will be fully respectful of what they can and can't do in the UK.

[reaper493]

Further to my post above, someone who works at Waddington found my photos of last night on Facebook and gave me a telling off.....

The following lines were used:
God's sake Mike you'll spoil it for the rest of us.
They will just go home.
The MOSAD are guarding the jets.
Why did you ignore the warnings etc etc.....

Theres been another photo post this morning with isreali staff in, and the lady confirmed they came to talk to her, let take the photos and she had no problems. So aslong as people don't take the mick I think we'll be fine.

[Thunder]

Sorry to go on again, but it’s probably worth pointing out that the Israeli security will more than likely be monitoring this site (probably directed here by Waddington/UK colleagues). Once they’ve seen want kind of pictures are being taken, they will be more than satisfied that we don’t pose any problems to their security.

If you do manage by accident to snap a face or faces of Israeli personnel, then not only the sensible but right thing to do is not to post it here or anywhere else bragging that you managed to evade the Israeli authorities.

I’m fairly sure as the week progresses things will be ok as long as the idiots of our hobby stay away or toe the line.

Edit: Just read Mikes post above, he posted as I was typing. Exactly what I’m on about above, don’t go snooping, be honest and if they ask to delete photos/you shouldn’t be here, then respect their wishes if not it could lead to our own Civpol getting involved and clamping down altogether.

[Thor]

After a few incidents today, please be aware that the fields around the approach at both ends are not available for use.
I spoke at length with the MD of the company that owns the land at both ends last week to try to arrange some form of access, but he wasn't amenable to it in any form. He's a thoroughly nice chap, but does have a business to run. Civpol have spoken to him prior to my conversation and are prepared to get involved if requested. The company's employees will be patrolling the land and will ask you to leave if they find you there.

It's private land, there is no 'right to roam' that entitles the public to walk where they want on private land. If you're asked to leave, please do so courteously & promptly (better still, don't go there in the first place..). There have been reports today of the company's employees being given abuse when asked to leave this private land - that's really not acceptable.

That's all very well, except the Lincolnshire county council map of public rights of way show a footpath running from the B1178 up to the Waddington fence very close to where I understand the Israelis are parked.

http://row.lincolnshire.gov.uk/map.aspx?act=Walking

The reference is Wdgn/7/1 and from looking at Google Earth there is no obvious footpath through those fields. Perhaps you should point out to said landowner his responsibilities under the law to keep the footpaths clear. If it's clearly marked, most spotters would keep to it. I've not been yet, but if it is full of crops perhaps said landowner would prefer us to keep to the edges of the fields rather than use the footpath through the middle of his crops?

The footpath skirts the edges of fields as I recall from walking it. My post referred to keeping off the fields, not the footpath. The landowner is well aware of his duties in relation to PROW across the company's land and does a good job of keeping them usable and in decent order.

Mike has already pointed out that you can walk down the track to the crashgate from the lay-by and that aside from having Israeli security & MPGSS coming across to see you, you shouldn't get any hassle there. This would be a far easier & safer option than using the footpath you mentioned - closer to the lay-by where you can park and you'll not be in danger from the vehicles that regard the B1178 as a racetrack. I drive that road several days each week and know how narrow, busy and dangerous to a cyclist or pedestrian it can be.

[Malcolm]

After a few incidents today, please be aware that the fields around the approach at both ends are not available for use.
I spoke at length with the MD of the company that owns the land at both ends last week to try to arrange some form of access, but he wasn't amenable to it in any form. He's a thoroughly nice chap, but does have a business to run. Civpol have spoken to him prior to my conversation and are prepared to get involved if requested. The company's employees will be patrolling the land and will ask you to leave if they find you there.

It's private land, there is no 'right to roam' that entitles the public to walk where they want on private land. If you're asked to leave, please do so courteously & promptly (better still, don't go there in the first place..). There have been reports today of the company's employees being given abuse when asked to leave this private land - that's really not acceptable.

That's all very well, except the Lincolnshire county council map of public rights of way show a footpath running from the B1178 up to the Waddington fence very close to where I understand the Israelis are parked.

http://row.lincolnshire.gov.uk/map.aspx?act=Walking

The reference is Wdgn/7/1 and from looking at Google Earth there is no obvious footpath through those fields. Perhaps you should point out to said landowner his responsibilities under the law to keep the footpaths clear. If it's clearly marked, most spotters would keep to it. I've not been yet, but if it is full of crops perhaps said landowner would prefer us to keep to the edges of the fields rather than use the footpath through the middle of his crops?

The footpath skirts the edges of fields as I recall from walking it. My post referred to keeping off the fields, not the footpath. The landowner is well aware of his duties in relation to PROW across the company's land and does a good job of keeping them usable and in decent order.

You remember incorrectly. Below is the extract from the Lincolnshire County Council website, and to the right is the Google earth view of the same area.



Assuming the both are current and up to date, it would appear the footpath I'm talking about (the yellow and white hatched one running past Glebe Farm) does run through the middle of the fields, and not around the edges. The footpath cannot be diverted or removed/extinguished without the county councils approval. The footpath can be ploughed, and crops planted on it, but it must be restored as a footpath within 14 days. Deliberatly blocking the path can be a criminal offence. You ARE allowed to trample crops planted on a right of way. The issue is more one of navigation - it would be an offense to trample any crops not on the right of way, but if the right of way is obstructed or not well signposted the user has two choices -

1. Best guess at the correct location of the footpath, and if you get it wrong risk trampling crops illegally.
2. Stick to the edges of the fields, avoiding crop damage but potentially committing trespass - which isn't 'illegal' per se but still a civil offence.

Mike has already pointed out that you can walk down the track to the crashgate from the lay-by and that aside from having Israeli security & MPGSS coming across to see you, you shouldn't get any hassle there. This would be a far easier & safer option than using the footpath you mentioned - closer to the lay-by where you can park and you'll not be in danger from the vehicles that regard the B1178 as a racetrack. I drive that road several days each week and know how narrow, busy and dangerous to a cyclist or pedestrian it can be.

Agree with all that. Went myself on Sunday, and no bother whatsoever. Good views from the crash gate at the end of the lane from the layby. But if someone wants to use the other footpaths they can.

The one to the west appears to be a building site for a new estate at the moment, so it wouldn't surprise me if that PROW has been modified.

[twinstar]

I went down to the crash gate on Sunday, Israeli agents were on the scene very quickly and were very friendly, had a nice chat and no problems with photos.
It should be noted that they have cameras trained on the fence and are photographing the spotters that venture down there, so just be up front with them and there are no problems.

[raameagle]

Twinstar,
Well done mate. Some good common sense there. The Israeli security have no jurisdiction and they will know that. They are there to protect their own assets and personnel and nothing more. Absolutely nothing wrong with some friendly interaction and it proves to them that you mean no harm and just want to take some photos of their jets.
I travel a lot and almost expect to be spoken to nowadays at least once on a trip. I even carry photocopies of my passport details to hand over if requested. Ultimately I’m a spotter and photographer with nothing to hide.
Whilst I won’t be venturing down that track myself, I am looking forward to my short visit to Waddington to see the jets that I’m after (all Typhoons and no Eagles unfortunately) and to photograph whatever flies.
Regards
Mark