Wednesday 14-09-2022

[SamP]

I've said this before and I'll say it again.

The Airfields section, which the Fairford sub-section is in, is viewable by anyone in the world that has access to the internet and they don't even have to be a member of FC to be able to read every single post.
Should the timings and tracking of sensitive U-2 operations from & to the UK be accessible to the whole world? Of course not - the Heads-Up/OTT section is the place for it which is for members only that have 5 posts or more.
There is no reason why it should be treated differently from the other bases that have daily threads in the HU/OTT section.

The amount of members that join the forum these days to find no up to date information of any use in the airfield sections and find they don't have access to the Heads Up sections who then never log back into the forum is massive and leads to a pile of spam users in the form of inactive accounts. Whilst I fully agree that users should give at least a little back rather than just take, take, take; why would new members even be encouraged to contribute to the forum if they find it provides no up to date, useful information. With not even a glimpse into what they're missing in the sections they can't access.

Should the timing and tracking of U-2 operations (specifically) even be allowed on the forum, regardless of who has access to them? That's a debate for another time, but people won't stop tracking them if you enforce a new rule saying they can't. They'll just set up their own group and continue on as before.

The system is far from perfect. I'd just like to see a forum that benefits the majority of its users and encourages participation in the hobby, not one that alienates and turns people to use god awful Facebook groups full of mis information and zero vetting or moderation instead.

[atech]

Works fine for every other base in heads up. Absolutely no reason for Fairford to be different just to please a tiny minority. Just subscribe to the thread and you won't miss a thing. People leaving just because they don't get their way says it all really.

Think that’s a case of the pot calling the kettle. As far as I can see only you and one other have been calling for this change, which makes you the minority compared with the majority of voices calling for the status quo.

Still you got your pedantic little victory, but don’t gloat too much

There's no gloating, I asked for clarification earlier, this was the response from admin. Its not pedantic at all, its just keeping FFD in line with every other base, there's no reason for it to be any different.

Rich

Pedantic definition:
“excessively concerned with minor details or rules; overscrupulous”

It wasn’t broken and didn’t need fixing until you chimed in. Result a lot of disgruntled people, give yourself a big high five

[Pune]

Well said Sam and atech..hopefully members can now see why some folk don't post anything for fear of retribution by the perfect ones on this forum.
There are more important things in life.

[Gary]

I think a reminder of the guidelines is needed. Posted by Adam

Over recent months it has become apparent that there is a lack of clarity around the ‘Spotters Area – Serials and Airfield logs section’ and the information that should be posted within. Whilst the team are looking at a restructuring of some sections and more detailed guidelines, it’s clear that in the interim something needs to be in place for the section to ensure that members are clear on what information to post and so that moderators have a set of guidelines to clearly work against.

Therefore, in the interim until the wider restructure work is clear, the following guidelines for the section should be followed when posting -

The 'Spotters Area - Serials and Airfields Logs' Section is designed to hold information that is related to defined geographical areas and, where viable, specific airbases within that area.

These guidelines are intended to help clarify the types of posts that are expected within the section -

- Movement & logs from airfield visits (no matter how complete although obviously please use common sense as to level of detail included)
- Requests for specific log information such as a serial or callsign tie up at a base
- Airfield specific viewing information such as parking areas, facilities, places to avoid etc
- Airfield specific unit information such as based aircraft and unit lists
- Other Airfield specific questions that are appropriate

The section is not for posting -

- Live movement information - please post this within heads up / ott sections
- Photo threads from visits - please post these in the relevant photography section

If you have any queries then please contact a staff member via PM or using the ‘report post’ function

Simply speaking - if the aircraft IS in the air and you are looking at it/listening to it on the radio when you post then it should be in heads up/ott, if it WAS in the air in the past then in the airfield logs section.

We appreciate that some may wish to post a ‘heads up’ in a particular airfield section regarding a live movement however this really should be posted within the ‘heads up/ott’ section at this time. The reasoning behind this is that aircraft still in the air can obviously transit many bases at one time. This could lead to, for example, a RAF Northolt flight shooting approaches at Brize, Valley, Waddington and then Lakenheath before returning to base. If live movements are then posted in each airfield section then that leads to 5 posts for the same flight along with a thread in ‘heads up/ott’ which covers the real time monitoring of the entire flight. This duplication of information can make it very confusing and there is no benefit to have 6 threads monitoring the same aircrafts flight.

The subject of splitting heads up/ott into a looser geographical organisation has been discussed in the past by the team and also with some members. Whilst it might help in some regards, the nature of an aircrafts movement around the country means a moderator would have to continually move the thread around the sections as the aircraft moves into them – something that just isn’t viable for a team that is all volunteers.

And finally, can we reiterate the final statement. If you feel a post is not in the correct section then PM a member of staff or use the report post function (the exclamation mark button) to bring it to the teams attention. Posts in the thread claiming it to be in the wrong section will be removed in line with the above and repeated posts of this manner will lead to restriction of posting ability.

It wasn’t broken and didn’t need fixing until you chimed in. Result a lot of disgruntled people, give yourself a big high five

It wasn’t broken when the guidelines where originally followed. It’s been lax Modding by the whole team allowing the guidelines to go out the window.

Why is it that most other sections ie LN, Coningsby etc can post tracking info in the correct area. Yet the Fairford want to do their own thing.

[davem]

It wasn’t broken when the guidelines where originally followed. It’s been lax Modding by the whole team allowing the guidelines to go out the window.

Why is it that most other sections ie LN, Coningsby etc can post tracking info in the correct area. Yet the Fairford want to do their own thing.

If it was 'lax modding' then it seems to have naturally evolved its way into a format that (on the surface) worked perfectly fine on a day to day basis, with those that could kindly supply info (ie those with Mode-A tracking capability) doing so for U2 departures and then more often than not for its return many hours later.

Moving it into HU/OTT means that following the initial burst of messages, as nothing happens for hours until it reappears, the thread drops rapidly down the page especially compared with the bases with dozens of movements or comments each and every day.

Someone said that Fairford is not unique but in this respect it surely is? It is primarily one single aircraft launching from one specific base several times a week then returning many hours later with other than very rare PD nothing happening at all in the interim. Other than the BTF which rightly has its own section I dont think that this is replicated on a military base anywhere else in the UK?

I confess that I normally only visit the HU section when I am in front of a PC so it is easy to scan through the whole page (personally I don't have much interest in the daily goings on from the eastern side of the country) but have the BTF and FFD page as direct page links on my phone so I can movement info from those 2 pages easily and quickly.

Sam's idea of a poll to see what would work best for the majority could be the way to go as IMHO it was working well in its prevoous guide and would also give an idea of how many members are actually interested in the U2 movements on a daily basis (and where to find the info) - I'd guess primarily those that either live near the base or are living under its somewhat repetitive flightlines.

2p spent.
Dave.

[SamP]

The problem with creating the poll is I know what the outcome would be and it would require a rework of the forum rules to keep everyone happy. It would appear that an exemption cannot be made otherwise.

I'm keeping a running daily log in the Fairford section today which should be working well for those that use the topic notification system. See how it goes over the next week or so, but hopefully it won't solely rely on me to collate. The daily log will only work off the back of posts in the UK Heads Up section, so any tracking information posted there would be greatly appreciated, as it was before in the Fairford section.