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Reds not doing full display at Farnborough - Flypasts only.

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Scudpilot
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Reds not doing full display at Farnborough - Flypasts only.

Post by Scudpilot » Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:24 am

Seems like the CAA are not allowing it:

http://aerosociety.com/News/Insight-Blo ... 16-Preview
Last edited by Scudpilot on Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No Reds at Farnborough 2016

Post by bizfreeq » Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:57 am

I suggest you read the article properly, it clearly states they will be there but no aerobatics will be performed, so likely to be flypasts only. There is to be a statement in the coming days to clarify. Nowhere does it state the CAA have said anything let alone that they aren't allowing their display, just that it is amid safety fears and that it is the RAF decision.
This is a very misleading post and also rather accusatory in what little wording you have used.
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Re: No Reds at Farnborough 2016

Post by welshandy » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:23 am

Another paragraph further down about the F35's
However, while five F-35s (two F-35Bs and three F-35As) are set to travel to the UK for July, only the F-35Bs will appear in the air show. The USAF F-35As which will be at RIAT are set to miss Farnborough as, reportedly due to an arcane rule, they are only authorised to fly as part of a ‘heritage’ flight. Expect to hear a few jokes at the USAF’s expense around the chalets. - See more at: http://aerosociety.com/News/Insight-Blo ... wJI0c.dpuf
I thought the RAF were bringing a F35B as well or is it the case of the plastic airfix kit out making a repeat appearance :S
Last edited by welshandy on Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: No Reds at Farnborough 2016

Post by robin » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:25 am

According to a mate (at RAF Scampton) the "RED ARROWS" are due to perform at Farnborough, and he should know...

The dates he has confirmed for Farnborough is as follow's

15, 16 & 17 July Farnborough International Airshow, Hampshire.

He also told me to check the "Red Arrows" Web Site, as it is listed on there.

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Re: No Reds at Farnborough 2016

Post by EGVP » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:41 am

Other than the OP, no-one is saying the Red Arrows won't be at Farnborough. The linked article, and a number of others, state
bizfreeq wrote:they will be there but no aerobatics will be performed, so likely to be flypasts only.

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Re: No Reds at Farnborough 2016

Post by Scudpilot » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:45 am

OK, perhaps I worded it badly, but, my point was, they will not be carrying out their usual display.
"Insiders now confirm that the Red Arrows traditional aerobatic display at Farnborough has been dropped due to safety fears from RAF top brass."

I have tweeted the Farnborough Airshow Twitter Feed, and in the absence of any response (which I would suspect they would be swift to issue a denial if they could), it would seem to be correct.
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Re: No Reds at Farnborough 2016

Post by page_verify » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:07 pm

Whether it's a desirable outcome or not, it's good to see that there's an internal review process and that someone is prepared to veto what they consider to now be a potentially operationally or politically dangerous display.

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Re: No Reds at Farnborough 2016

Post by Mike » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:10 pm

Scudpilot wrote:OK, perhaps I worded it badly, but, my point was, they will not be carrying out their usual display.
Why not edit the thread title to something that is more apt?

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Re: No Reds at Farnborough 2016

Post by Scudpilot » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:12 pm

Mike wrote:
Scudpilot wrote:OK, perhaps I worded it badly, but, my point was, they will not be carrying out their usual display.
Why not edit the thread title to something that is more apt?

Until I saw your post, I was not aware that you could.
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Re: Reds not doing full display at Farnborough - Flypasts on

Post by ramjet » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:18 pm

The latest post from Farnborough
15 Jun 2016
RED ARROWS PARTICIPATION CHANGE
We can confirm the RAF Red Arrows will still be flying at Farnborough International Airshow this year and will be engaging with the young people attending Futures Days and the public during the public weekend.

In light of the accident at Shoreham last year the nature of their display will change. The RAF has conducted an assessment of the risk associated with flying their display at Farnborough. Due to the high speed and dynamic nature of the Red Arrows aerobatic routine, the RAF has decided it will not be possible for them to perform their traditional display at Farnborough this year.

We can also confirm there will be a full flying display featuring some of the most exciting and pioneering aircraft currently available. The Farnborough International team have been working closely with the CAA to implement all the requirements of their updated air display regulations.

With a rich history of pioneering firsts, Farnborough International Airshow is a showcase for the aviation industry and the Red Arrows will be part of an exciting show that will be packed full of entertainment and aircraft (in the sky and on the ground) to inform, inspire and ignite the passions of the next generation of pilots and engineers.
hmmmmm!

& from the Reds
Royal Air Force Aerobatic Team, the Red Arrows: Participation at Farnborough International Airshow 2016

The Red Arrows will be flying at the Farnborough International Airshow and engaging with both adults and young people on all three days that are open to the general public.

However, the high speed and dynamic nature of the traditional Red Arrows' display is no longer appropriate due to the large amounts of local housing, business areas and major transport links underneath the planned display area.

In addition to the Red Arrows flypast with the new F35 Lightning II aircraft on 11 July, further Red Arrows flypasts in different formations are now planned for 15, 16 and 17 July. These additional flypasts, together with more exciting opportunities for the public to engage with the Red Arrows team on the ground, and other RAF air and ground displays, will ensure the Airshow remains a truly exciting, inspirational and entertaining family event.

For the remainder of the display season the Red Arrows are looking forward to displaying as usual at multiple events all over the UK and abroad.
Rog.

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Re: Reds not doing full display at Farnborough - Flypasts on

Post by peasus911 » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:49 pm

Vey sad day. :@

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Re: Reds not doing full display at Farnborough - Flypasts on

Post by Scudpilot » Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:23 pm

Andy Hill should be feck shot (if it turns out he was in the wrong)
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Re: Reds not doing full display at Farnborough - Flypasts on

Post by ChrisCwmbran » Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:42 pm

Scudpilot wrote:Andy Hill should be feck shot (if it turns out he was in the wrong)
Not the most intelligent post.

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Re: Reds not doing full display at Farnborough - Flypasts on

Post by Nighthawke » Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:48 pm

Andy Hill should be feck shot (if it turns out he was in the wrong)
Why - because of the tragic loss of life or because you don't get to see the Red Arrows' full display at Farnborough?

A very harsh and unhelpful comment IMHO.

Stepping outside the box for a bit and looking at this with some logic, where is the sense in 9 jets tearing around the sky at all levels, speeds and angles over a built-up area? Just because it has been going on for years does not necessarily mean it is "right". Eventually something is likely to go wrong - it has before and could again. Last week proved the case - some luck but some tragedy too.

Maybe it is time to just be glad to see aircraft flying and not just on the ground at public displays, or possibly nothing at all.

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Re: Reds not doing full display at Farnborough - Flypasts on

Post by page_verify » Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:18 am

I agree Nighthawke. I'm fed up of people who suggest that years of event-free displays over questionable venues is justification for continuing to do it. We're a race that learns by its mistakes, not one that celebrates its continued success at avoiding disasters. The Shoreham crash was a clear turning point in how the risk of leisure flying is perceived and as a race our instinct is to learn from that. As someone, like others on here I'm sure, who regularly makes decisions that could end me up in court or even prison if they're wrong (HSE/duty of care/corporate manslaughter etc.) I'd suggest I'd be a very poor decision maker if I didn't consider past worst cases when making decisions. I often use the analogy of aircraft crime to help people understand how to manage even the smallest of risks. On average, less than 1 passenger per airliner has ever been a hijacker so are they happy for one passenger per flight to bypass security before they board?

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Re: Reds not doing full display at Farnborough - Flypasts on

Post by Scudpilot » Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:32 pm

Nighthawke wrote:
Andy Hill should be feck shot (if it turns out he was in the wrong)
Why - because of the tragic loss of life or because you don't get to see the Red Arrows' full display at Farnborough?

A very harsh and unhelpful comment IMHO..
Maybe it was harsh, and it was said in the heat of the moment, if I caused offence to anyone I apologise.
However, the facts remain.
As it stands, my understanding is this. Nothing was found to be wrong with the aircraft, and the pilot appeared to carry out the manouver too low.
End result, 11 people lost their lives (this is by far the most important factor)
If Shoreham had not happened, would the the CAA have looked at the regulations? Possibly, but I doubt it, what reason would they have had to do so?
There is now talk that Farnborough Airshow may be re-located to another airfield due to it's proximity to houses.
Airshows look as thought they could be "dumbed down" in the future, meaning lower attendance, less money raised for charity, and unltimatley, could result in less people being employed, and costing jobs.
All of which, most likely would not have happened, were it not for Shoreham.
He apparently had done it before too:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/aviatio ... rlier.html
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Re: Reds not doing full display at Farnborough - Flypasts on

Post by PR9 » Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:18 pm

Very sad day when a team that are the cream of the crop and total professionals can have their wings clipped by "elf n safety."
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Re: Reds not doing full display at Farnborough - Flypasts on

Post by Blackcat1 » Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:25 pm

Awful, what if the F35 has trouble and loses control and crashes?
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Re: Reds not doing full display at Farnborough - Flypasts on

Post by ColintheCaterpillar » Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:04 pm

Has anyone actually taken a look at the Farnborough display site? Unless you move the datum to the southern end of the airfield 50% of the Reds display would be over residential and retail areas.

Here's a different angle as food for thought: maybe as a venue for a large trade fair Farnborough has it merits, but as an airshow venue, Farnborough itself is probably no longer fit for purpose? Looking at the flying area, even the new biz jet terminal on the west side is out of bounds. The place is now just too hemmed in.
Last edited by ColintheCaterpillar on Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Reds not doing full display at Farnborough - Flypasts on

Post by slogen51 » Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:13 pm

I cannot agree with page-verify above.

We are a race that leans from mistakes and make improvements, we don't just give up otherwise aviation would have been abandoned at its outset.

In my opinion the focus should be on the qualification of the individual pilots and maintenance certification. So there shouldn't be a problem with professional display teams such as the Red sparrows.

Perhaps warbirds do need to be looked at more closely? As much as I enjoy warbirds I don't need to see a loop or inverted rolls .

But we are where we are , a tragic accident occurred at Shoreham and it assumed it could happen again which is true but everything involves some risk. Most people enjoy a airshow because it is daring otherwise you can go to Heathrow and watch big jets take off every few minutes.

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